Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1877455517456400384

Now we're 2-3 years away from being 2-3 years away. It never ends.

Next year when they fire these clowns how many years away will we be?

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 09, 2025, 03:50:44 PMNow we're 2-3 years away from being 2-3 years away. It never ends.

Next year when they fire these clowns how many years away will we be?

How can it possibly be less than 2, when we're unlikely to secure a viable franchise QB this year?

Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 03:53:28 PMHow can it possibly be less than 2, when we're unlikely to secure a viable franchise QB this year?

I don't know what the plan is or what the timeline should be. What I do know is there is no justification to give the current regime another pass on another embarrassing season. They're going to have to compete with the players they have. If they're competing for the #1 pick next year there should be no question that Schoen and Daboll are gone. It's all a mess being run by amateurs.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 09, 2025, 04:08:44 PMI don't know what the plan is or what the timeline should be. What I do know is there is no justification to give the current regime another pass on another embarrassing season. They're going to have to compete with the players they have. If they're competing for the #1 pick next year there should be no question that Schoen and Daboll are gone. It's all a mess being run by amateurs.

There is not a chance the Giant fans will tolerate another year like this one. The planes flying over MetLife will be a constant. Mara will be tormented by fans and the media as a laughing stock. The Giants stupidly stuck with Jones way too long. If they do it again with Schoen and Daboll always finding excuses for why they aren't winning we fans might as well give up.

Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 03:53:28 PMHow can it possibly be less than 2, when we're unlikely to secure a viable franchise QB this year?

Exactly. I don't know how this is a surprise to anyone.

There aren't any franchise QBs in this draft. And any later round lottery pick type wouldn't be making an impact until 2-3 years at earliest.

Then in the 2026 draft, the hope is to land that franchise QB. Best case is they have a Stroud-like rookie season, but even that guy might not move the needle until year 2.

Any bridge guy we sign - Mariota, Winston, Fields - will bring more immediate improvement, but they won't be a part of the organization "turning things around."

Anyone expecting anything before that 2-3 year window is setting themselves up for disappointment.

The excuse making is ridiculous .

We went from "Daniel Jones can't be expected to compete until he's surrounded by a great offense" to...

"Schoen and Daboll can't be expected to compete until they have a great QB."

It's truly mindless. Meanwhile, a coach like Mike Tomlin doesn't tolerate any excuses for losing regardless of who is playing QB.

Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 03:53:28 PMHow can it possibly be less than 2, when we're unlikely to secure a viable franchise QB this year?

It will take longer but the dynamic duo won't be around beyond next year which is why the change should have been made Monday. Ass backwards as usual.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 09, 2025, 04:21:25 PMExactly. I don't know how this is a surprise to anyone.

There aren't any franchise QBs in this draft. And any later round lottery pick type wouldn't be making an impact until 2-3 years at earliest.

Then in the 2026 draft, the hope is to land that franchise QB. Best case is they have a Stroud-like rookie season, but even that guy might not move the needle until year 2.

Any bridge guy we sign - Mariota, Winston, Fields - will bring more immediate improvement, but they won't be a part of the organization "turning things around."

Anyone expecting anything before that 2-3 year window is setting themselves up for disappointment.

This is TBD

For as much as people are angry with Mara, I agree with his perspective.  He is pissed off, but the recent draft class was good and Daboll was coach of the year not long ago, players support him etc.  If we reach for a QB in this year's draft it could be 6 more wasted years like with Jones.  Poor QB play, more than coaching or the front office was the problem.

I don't get why people are so sure we should just take a guy at 3 as if that somehow makes him good?  We would miss on an elite defensive talent and pin our hopes on someone who is at best Bo Nix??  No thanks.  This is gonna take time.  I said it 2 years ago - 2022's surprise season was the worst thing that could have happened to this organization. 

In year 4 of a regime can it be expected that the roster is good enough for say 8 wins if they sign a QB like Fields or Wilson?  Guys who brought a team to the playoffs this year.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 09, 2025, 07:30:31 PMIn year 4 of a regime can it be expected that the roster is good enough for say 8 wins if they sign a QB like Fields or Wilson?  Guys who brought a team to the playoffs this year.

7 to 8 wins is reasonable, Matt.

We have witnessed two quick turn arounds recently-  The Texans and the Commanders

In both cases, they did a complete regime change-  HC and GM

They both were able to add a franchise QB picking second

They were both able to boost their talent levels-  The Texans via the draft and the Commanders via free agency


Going into year 4, the Giants have not boosted their talent level, have a coaching staff with a downward trajectory with wins and more losing seasons than winning, and have failed to acquire a franchise QB.

You know, for a QB to thrive, he needs either some quality players to throw to or a good line to protect him.   One critical difference between acquiring protection and pass catchers and the franchise QB, is that a team can focus on building their line or acquiring pass catchers in a season or two (or three) if they are reasonably competent, they can achieve their goal.  On the other hand, there is a huge element of luck involved in acquiring a franchise QB.  Often, it's where you draft when the franchise QB is available in the draft.  There is no way, short of blatant tanking, to control that element.  In the three seasons the Schoen and Daboll have drafted, they were not in a position to draft one of the franchise QBs that came out that year.  Frankly, it's not looking promising for year four, either.

If you don't have a franchise QB, it's extremely difficult to effectively and consistently compete.  I think the post-Big Ben Steelers were one of the exceptions to that rule.  The Vikings, Seahawks, Bucs, and Lions found a different path in that they built such strong offensive support and had such quality coaching staffs that they were able to reclaim failed former high QB draft picks and develop them to reach their potential.   That is also not a road one can go down systematically.   The building strong can, but finding that failed prospect with talent, is not a given.  There needs to be one that the team can acquire, and it's never certain you can fix a prospect who failed to develop.

What is the definition of contending?  Contending for a Super Bowl?  Then yea that's probably about 3 or 4 years away.  Contending for a wild card spot? I do not think it will be 3 years if they get a real QB.  This roster as a whole is not that bad.  The team that played the last month because everybody was on IR was terrible.  At the beginning of the season the team was fine, the QB wasn't.  And from there nothing else mattered.

Yes, regardless of the QB if the LT/RT/LG/C all get hurt again the team is going to suffer.  But even for the Giants that was a bit of a fluke.  And they will have another offseason to build at least a little bit of depth.

The Giants need help at CB, could probably use another solid DT, and a RG.  All of that is doable via free agency and the draft.  The problem is the QB.  Do they get Ward or Sanders?  Does Allar change his mind and land in NY?  Do they take Hunter or Johnson to be the CB and try to get Dart/Milroe to be the QB later?  There is still a lot of ways this can go right now, we'll know more after the draft, but with a QB this team is going to look a hell of a lot better in my opinion.

Quote from: Gmo11 on January 10, 2025, 09:18:46 AMWhat is the definition of contending?  Contending for a Super Bowl?  Then yea that's probably about 3 or 4 years away.  Contending for a wild card spot? I do not think it will be 3 years if they get a real QB.  This roster as a whole is not that bad. The team that played the last month because everybody was on IR was terrible.  At the beginning of the season the team was fine, the QB wasn't.  And from there nothing else mattered.

Yes, regardless of the QB if the LT/RT/LG/C all get hurt again the team is going to suffer.  But even for the Giants that was a bit of a fluke.  And they will have another offseason to build at least a little bit of depth.

The Giants need help at CB, could probably use another solid DT, and a RG.  All of that is doable via free agency and the draft.  The problem is the QB.  Do they get Ward or Sanders?  Does Allar change his mind and land in NY?  Do they take Hunter or Johnson to be the CB and try to get Dart/Milroe to be the QB later?  There is still a lot of ways this can go right now, we'll know more after the draft, but with a QB this team is going to look a hell of a lot better in my opinion.

I think it's worthwhile conducting the exercise that Bobby Skinner did.   Take the Giants top 10 players.  Then, compare those top 10 players with the top 10 players of the teams that made the playoffs.  You will find that the Giants simply don't stack up when compared to the playoff teams.

The importance of the exercise is that every team in the NFL, including the worst teams, will have a few good players, maybe even a great player or two.   You only really get a proper feel for the team's true talent level when you give the roster a reference point, like the rosters of other teams.