Big Blue Huddle

It speaks to a bigger problem that was conveyed to ESPN by the players and coaches interviewed. There was a lack of trust between the team and players -- one defensive player went so far as to describe it as "distrust." It's an issue Schoen and Daboll will have to mend as they move forward.

The catalyst was a gap in communication. More than a handful of players spoke of being misled and left to dangle in the wind on issues, including their roles changing or snaps dwindling, without sufficient explanation.

It started early. Defensive back Isaiah Simmons admitted it was "shocking" and "confusing" he didn't play a defensive snap in Week 1. Simmons re-signed with the Giants in the offseason because he thought there was a role for him in the defense. There was even a scene in "Hard Knocks" to document the lofty plans they had for Simmons as a first- and second-down nickelback and third-down moneybacker. That never materialized throughout the season. He played 16.1% of the defensive snaps after 33.5% the previous year.

"All you want in this league is the truth," an offensive player said of the communication.

"When we needed [those players], they were checked out," one defensive player said, not specifically about Simmons but about those who felt alienated.

Several players spoke of the inability to get a straight answer from the coach or GM and that affected their confidence and ultimately their ability to perform.

"Makes you wonder: Do they believe in me? Do they trust me?" another offensive player added.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/43297567/new-york-giants-how-all-went-wrong-2024

One other section from the article

QuoteMultiple players said they were "surprised" Daboll was retained. Some said they were fine with the decision, in part, because he's a player-friendly coach -- open to feedback and incorporates a favorable schedule that hardly wore them down. Daboll's program is known to be heavy on off days and meetings don't start that early (8:30 a.m.). The players seem to like Daboll, the person, even though they see signs his program is not destined for success.

"It's like your only option is to blindly trust," an offensive player said.

Seems the players are in the same boat as the fans.  The only thing any of us have is blind trust and hope.

They're not stupid. They know that a coach that just went 3-14 isn't miraculously going to turn his team into champions.

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Quote from: BlueMoshik on January 10, 2025, 01:12:47 PMThey're not stupid. They know that a coach that just went 3-14 isn't miraculously going to turn his team into champions.

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Yet, they still played hard through the end of the season. Players don't do that for a coach they don't believe in.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2025, 12:45:19 PMOne other section from the article


Seems the players are in the same boat as the fans.  The only thing any of us have is blind trust and hope.

The players have more of an effect on the record than fans ever will. They have way more than blind trust. How about blocking, tackling, and not dropping passes?

Quote from: T200 on January 10, 2025, 01:41:04 PMYet, they still played hard through the end of the season. Players don't do that for a coach they don't believe in.

Tim,

As part of the post-Panther's game debacle (where players said they were soft), Carl Banks and Bob Papa got on their podcast and implored the players to play hard for themselves.  They pointed out that regardless of whether Daboll stays or goes, their efforts go on tape for both the Giants and other potential teams to see.  Their message was essentially, unless you're hurt, you better put out the effort because the career you will most hurt is your own.  Carl and Bob couldn't be more emphatic in this message.

So, in the end, you are at least partially correct; they didn't check out, and to a degree, that is due to leadership (since, presumably, they would have requested Bob and Carl to put out that message).  Of course, on the other side of that coin, the number of hurt players sure seemed to skyrocket.  Now, admittedly, some of that was due to true injuries, as the post about players on kneeling scooters attests.

https://x.com/caplannfl/status/1877796843280605192

Quote from: T200 on January 10, 2025, 01:41:04 PMYet, they still played hard through the end of the season. Players don't do that for a coach they don't believe in.

"Played hard", I don't know what that means in this context. They're professional players, they're not playing "hard" for a coach. They went 3-14, which means that the players aren't good enough (that's on Schoen) and the coaching is bad (that's on Daboll). That's really all there is to say.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on January 12, 2025, 08:26:47 AM"Played hard", I don't know what that means in this context. They're professional players, they're not playing "hard" for a coach. They went 3-14, which means that the players aren't good enough (that's on Schoen) and the coaching is bad (that's on Daboll). That's really all there is to say.

I respect your perspective. 

Quote from: BlueMoshik on January 12, 2025, 08:26:47 AM"Played hard", I don't know what that means in this context. They're professional players, they're not playing "hard" for a coach. They went 3-14, which means that the players aren't good enough (that's on Schoen) and the coaching is bad (that's on Daboll). That's really all there is to say.

I'm not sure.

Played hard = not giving up, testing your limited abilities to the maximum

Not good enough = over matched each week with little/no chance of winning.

I think the Giants are the epitome of both elements. Although, it's about as valuable as being 'locked-in' between weeks 2-6. That did a lot of heavy lifting around here for a month.

Really don't have a good feeling about either of them.....
First time in many years I am not hopeful for improvement next year.
Status quo ?
Giants need to show me something different...... just a better QB.  Is not the answer to all their problems.


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Maybe Vrabel will take Bowen with him to pats.  Fingers crossed x


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Quote from: Woody on January 12, 2025, 01:32:01 PMMaybe Vrabel will take Bowen with him to pats.  Fingers crossed x


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I heard it was suggested that the Giants hope that happen.  That way, they can let Bowen go to the Pats and not have to fire yet another coordinator

I'm not sure Bowen is the problem. it's easy to scapegoat him. The Giants let most of their best players leave. That's Schoen. Their offense was horrible. That's Daboll.

Players at the end of the season play hard (or should) because they are putting out tape that other teams will be looking at to sign FAs. 

Further, how many guys playing in the last 2 weeks of the season were getting snaps in the 1st half of the season? Or ever got NFL snaps? 

Divaad Wilson and Ty Summers (don't even know who they are) are going to play their @sses off because they may never see an NFL field again.