Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Woody on January 11, 2025, 10:15:57 AMIn my opinion  the Giants are in a position of weakness in their endeavor to improve, if it can be done at all in next few years .....now, I hope I am wrong. 

Sounds bad but thanks to Mr Mara and his decision to keep the GM and coach after two of the worst years in Giant history, along with his very non convincing presser basically saying both are on the clock to improve or else !

Where are the Giants today ? in the view of the rest of league ? With FA 's ? new coaches if any changes are made ? In the eyes of fans ...old and new ?
Who would want to be part of this mess ? with two lame duck people in charge?
Maybe, things will turn around ...but it will have to be done with the existing staff ....Good quality Fa"s ? (Not sure many will want to come and play for a lame duck coach ?) and another very good draft. Can it happen ? Maybe , but when the owner comes out with the press conference and comments about the state of his leadership the way he did  in that presser....wow , the pressure is on and he did not do his GM and head coach any favors.  ... Some may think, good the pressure should be on them ... I am one of those people , but man, Mr. Mara is his own worst enemy ....in my opinion again ...if he is willing to stay the course...which he has done,
then at least come out and fake it if need be.  show support for them and try to be positive about his team...
try to create a positive atmosphere for the team ... instead he has contributed to the current uncertainty that overwhelms the team at this time.

Maybe I am over reacting ...but until the Giants can show me something    ??? 

I feel that Mara has to show some change in his or his family's roles in the team as a sign of change from the top for the team to get better.. will it happen ?
hoping so

Woody: IMO you're not over-reacting. All of us have waited long enough for results and I can't blame anyone for blowing off a lot of steam at this point. My view is that it will be a lot easier getting back to 8-9 or 9-8 than it will be to rise above that level into the realm of serious championship contenders. Bob

One thing I can just about 100% guarantee you: no matter how much doom and gloom you are hearing here now, within a couple months you will start to see a change in tone. More still after the draft. Come July and into camp you'll start seeing genuine optimism. You will hear about how certain players have really bulked up, making them more formidable, and how others have trimmed down, making them sleeker and faster. You'll see a few tweets with clips of guys training. You'll read a few beat writer articles quoting coaches who sound optimistic and you'll see those posted here. You'll read some optimistic-sounding quotes from players (find me one NFL player anywhere in the league who publicly expresses pessimism in April-August). You'll start to hear some more positive-sounding predictions from fans and on some Giants podcasts. A lot of it will come in the form of "if x and y can happen then z will happen" type statements, and you might even hear some outright bullish, 10-plus win type predictions.

You'll also see a lot of "7 or 8 wins, and if things click they could be in the wildcard mix" type season predictions. You'll see far fewer 3, 4, and 5 win type predictions come July/August.

Remember that every fan base in the league (collectively at least) thinks their team had a good draft. That optimism fuels summer optimism.

So I don't know that there is "no hope." There is plenty of hope and around here every year. Unfortunately, for the Giants, the hope and optimism just about always proves to have been unwarranted. But I can promise you it will still be there this spring/summer. And one of these seasons it may actually be warranted.

You ARE a

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2025, 09:06:38 AMThis post reminds me of an observation from my 35 years of volunteer work on an emergency and rescue squad.  For any volunteer organization to function effectively, you need doers.   Doers are the people who put in the extra time and effort to do the work that is needed for a place to run.  Having sat through many monthly business meetings, as sure as there are doers, you are going to have complainers.  They are the ones not doing the work but are more than happy to sit in the back of the room and criticize and put down the doers who put themselves out there.

I picked up on this dynamic early in my volunteer career.  One thing I vowed was that I was going to be a doer.  I would be a positive contributor and not be one of the whiners in the back of the room hurling barbs at the doers, no matter how much easier and emotionally satisfying the latter is.

BBH promised to be the BEST INFORMED fans, not the fans who are selectively ignorant to boost optimism.  Information and stories are going to be brought to this forum and are not going to be censored like I am Pat Hanlon.

You are a doer, a doer of one person's agenda to continually knock Daboll and Schoen at every chance you get. Even after you promised the board you would fall in line and accept what is and basically root for improvement, you continue to put up negative threads about these guys. It is NOT what Giant fans want to see and read. If you want a well-informed board then the season is over so we need to be positive.
You just continue to post ad nasseum every article, podcast, or writer who shares your negative views,
ENOUGH ALREADY.

Quote from: LennG on January 11, 2025, 12:01:09 PMYou ARE a
You are a doer, a doer of one person's agenda to continually knock Daboll and Schoen at every chance you get. Even after you promised the board you would fall in line and accept what is and basically root for improvement, you continue to put up negative threads about these guys. It is NOT what Giant fans want to see and read. If you want a well-informed board then the season is over so we need to be positive.
You just continue to post ad nasseum every article, podcast, or writer who shares your negative views,
ENOUGH ALREADY.

It's funny. For years around these parts, anything approaching an opinion critical of Daniel Jones was met with claims of being a "negative," "pessimistic," or even "bad" Giants fan. Now that he's gone, it's open-season for anything attacking the guys who let him go (including previously scorned anonymous quotes) with a host of reasons why it's appropriate and necessary. Interesting shift in dynamic.

I think we are 6 players away at specific positions my friend.

Quote from: LennG on January 11, 2025, 12:01:09 PMYou ARE a
You are a doer, a doer of one person's agenda to continually knock Daboll and Schoen at every chance you get. Even after you promised the board you would fall in line and accept what is and basically root for improvement, you continue to put up negative threads about these guys. It is NOT what Giant fans want to see and read. If you want a well-informed board then the season is over so we need to be positive.
You just continue to post ad nasseum every article, podcast, or writer who shares your negative views,
ENOUGH ALREADY.

I am the opposite of you. I am a man of truth and honor.  I am not going for your group-think demands for censorship of anything YOU don't want to read.  I am not going to lie about you as you like about me and about Ted (for the crime of saying things you don't like or agree with).  The TRUTH (you should try it sometime) is I post all articles, good and bad.  Since Pat Hanlon bullied the press for the month leading up to Mara's decision, the press is not reporting all the negative stuff they couldn't run with before Mara made his decision.  So, between Mara's contradictory and poorly thought-out presser and the freedom to finally report on the ugly stuff that had been swept under the rug, there is a flood of negative stories. 

If I find a positive story, I will (your vile lies about me notwithstanding); I will do as I always do and bring it here to the forum because I have an agenda outside of keeping everyone well informed and promoting good discussions about the team and football.  I will tell you now: I am not going to get your permission over what Tweets, stories, or information I share with the group.

PS- If I am hiding all these positive stories like you claim, you are certainly free to post them yourself.  Plus ESPN is not some obscure news source, as you claim.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on January 11, 2025, 12:13:44 PMIt's funny. For years around these parts, anything approaching an opinion critical of Daniel Jones was met with claims of being a "negative," "pessimistic," or even "bad" Giants fan. Now that he's gone, it's open-season for anything attacking the guys who let him go (including previously scorned anonymous quotes) with a host of reasons why it's appropriate and necessary. Interesting shift in dynamic.

If funny, you had no problem with all the negativity toward Gettleman.  Hell, you even joined in.  Now, suddenly, you and Len want to censor anything negative that has been REPORTED about Schoen and Daboll.  Now, that is a REAL shift in dynamics.  Should I get a group PM going where I get your and Len's permission before I post?

theres always hope. the problem is...theres no clear path.

We have a GM and a coach that are 2-7 away from being fired. You have a top 3 pick, with no clear cut elite QB prospects. You have few if any good free agent QB options. You have a DC who should probably be fired. But who would want to come here? New regimes install their own people, that goes for players and coaches.

Its not impossible, but super unlikely that we grab a qb that will be an instant franchise changing player.

We have a few good pieces to build around, but our draft picks ALWAYS seem to get worse year after year. We have 2 top 10 picks from the same draft that have been mild-major disappointments.

We have no identity other than losing. We have no depth at WR, CB, OL, DT... we are completely devoid of talent and don't have a coach who can patch things up when we get hurt.

With all that being said, there is always hope. Sometimes things just click. Realistically upgrading the qb situation is at the top of the list. Many of us have said jones isnt THE problem (obviously a large part of it), but also certainly was not the answer. Once we do this, we're maybe a quarter of the way there. The oline looked competent before the injuries last year. Keep building there. Tracy looks to be our starter for next year and i'm good with it. Give him some holes to work worth, and some time for whoever the QB will be.

Get an OC that can actually get these guys to execute and stop doing THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If i see one more bubble screen to wandale that goes for 2 yards i'm going to lose it. Predictable, boring, lifeless offense. It needs to change.

TLDR, yes there is hope, but no easy clear path. It's going to be a while. Strap in.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 11, 2025, 11:46:16 AMOne thing I can just about 100% guarantee you: no matter how much doom and gloom you are hearing here now, within a couple months you will start to see a change in tone. More still after the draft. Come July and into camp you'll start seeing genuine optimism. You will hear about how certain players have really bulked up, making the more formidable, and how others have trimmed down, making them sleeker and faster. You'll see a few tweets with clips of guys training. You'll read a few beat writer articles quoting coaches who sound optimistic and you'll see those posted here. You'll read some optimistic-sounding quotes from players (find me one NFL player anywhere in the league who publicly expresses pessimism in April-August). You'll start to hear some more positive-sounding predictions from fans and on some Giants podcasts. A lot of it will come in the form of "if x and y can happen then z will happen" type statements, and you might even hear some outright bullish, 10-plus win type predictions.

You'll also see a lot of "7 or 8 wins, and if things click they could be in the wildcard mix" type season predictions. You'll see far fewer 3, 4, and 5 win type predictions come July/August.

Remember that every fan base in the league (collectively at least) thinks their team had a good draft. That optimism fuels summer optimism.

So I don't know that there is "no hope." There is plenty of hope and around here every year. Unfortunately, for the Giants, the hope and optimism just about always proves to have been unwarranted. But I can promise you it will still be there this spring/summer. And one of these seasons it may actually be warranted.

I agree about that dynamic.  I will share this: I was pretty optimistic going into the season.  The crash and burn of the Vikings game hit me hard.  I am actively going to guard against being that optimistic again.   I can't go through another letdown like that.  I mean, I spent all those hours hobbling on crutches to get to camp.  There were hours of prep work studying players before appearing with Bobby Skinner.  For what?  To have the season start out horribly and be over before Halloween?  There was a month where I was hardly even posting because I just didn't feel like talking about the team

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2025, 12:54:10 PMIf funny, you had no problem with all the negativity toward Gettleman.  Hell, you even joined in.  Now, suddenly, you and Len want to censor anything negative that has been REPORTED about Schoen and Daboll.  Now, that is a REAL shift in dynamics

Sorry Rich, but you've missed the point entirely. I'm always okay with criticism, hence why I was critical of one of the worst GMs. And for years when that criticism was leveled at Jones, the response from many of his defenders was to (attempt to) diminish the poster. I notice you don't actually disagree, but instead try to accuse me of being hypocritical. Thanks, but no dice.

I also haven't asked for you to "censor" anything, so it's a disingenuous and baseless attack. But lumping people together and attacking things they never said isn't new behavior.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on January 11, 2025, 01:10:43 PMSorry Rich, but you've missed the point entirely. I'm always okay with criticism, hence why I was critical of one of the worst GMs. And for years when that criticism was leveled at Jones, the response from many of his defenders was to (attempt to) diminish the poster. I notice you don't actually disagree, but instead try to accuse me of being hypocritical. Thanks, but no dice.

I also haven't asked for you to "censor" anything, so it's a disingenuous and baseless attack. But lumping people together and attacking things they never said isn't new behavior.

The problem was there was never any censorship of either reports on Daniel Jones nor was there an effort to silence negative commentary.  There was a lot of bullying from the people posting the negative commentary directed at those who didn't share the view, but there was never the sort of naked effort to censor this board or control what is said or thought.  That is something quite new and, frankly, isn't going to fly.  Everyone here is entitled to voice their opinion regardless of who disagrees with it.

As for your other claims, you didn't directly support Len's efforts for censorship and thought control, you indirectly supported it by taking cheap, factly false claims directed at me for opposing said censorship.  You can't inject yourself in an argument over censorship and side with those trying to censor the board and then claim you are for freedom of speech and thought.

Someone on IG posted a video showing team records if the one-score wins were reversed.

Pretty interesting to see the Giants record despite how bad they've been all year.

I think that's cause for hope and optimism.



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Quote from: T200 on January 11, 2025, 05:00:04 PMSomeone on IG posted a video showing team records if the one-score wins were reversed.

Pretty interesting to see the Giants record despite how bad they've been all year.

I think that's cause for hope and optimism.



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A reflection on the coaching.

Quote from: katkavage on January 11, 2025, 05:22:25 PMA reflection on the coaching.

Partially on the coaching.

Nabers and Tracy both had over 1000 yards from scrimmage. A better QB helps to put more points on the board. A single TD flips those losses to wins.

Quote from: T200 on January 11, 2025, 05:00:04 PMSomeone on IG posted a video showing team records if the one-score wins were reversed.

Pretty interesting to see the Giants record despite how bad they've been all year.

I think that's cause for hope and optimism.

Tim: Not really, IMO. In doing this exercise, we should not count games in which the Giants would have lost by two scores if the winning team hadn't "permitted" them to run out the clock, scoring points that changed a 2-score game into a 1-score game. In at least a few games, the Giants were losing by two scores with about two minutes or so remaining, during which they managed (with the "permission" of the opponent) to score meaningless points. Bob