Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jnrbuckeye2756 on January 22, 2025, 02:30:06 PMLol. The qb who transferred to syracuse wasn't reliable. Time will sort out the riffraff. Howard is Tougher than the previous qb who was easily run off. If there is a Decrepit Offensive Line blocking for the first round drafted qb, or a second round qb in Howard, or a veteran qb bought with big money from else where, then probably won't be Any different than the qb who just left us....

I think his time at the Senior Bowl should be enlightening, Howard will be going up against most of the 2nd tier QBs

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 22, 2025, 02:31:54 PMThis group seems to be less impressive than last year.  Last year, you had arguably 2 or 3 top talents (Caleb and Daniels, and some threw in Maye).  JJ was polarizing

Pennix and Nix was thought to last until the bottom of round one to round 2

This year tier one is Ward and Sanders and most would say they are not elite QB prospects (compared to the top 3 last year).

You have Milrose who arguably has all the physical tools to be an elite QB but something (perhaps the mental aspect) limited his production

You have Dart, who has put up pretty good numbers, but when you watch his film breakdown, you come away wondering what would make him special (I get real Bo Nix vibes from him).

Finally, you have wildcards like Will Howard and Kyle McCord.    They both look impressive in college, but one wonders if they will be anything more than high-end backups.

Things could change over the next month or so, but right now I am getting 2022 vibes from this draft class

I'm not as down as you on the class though there aren't the Williams/Daniels top tier prospects in it.  I think after what we've suffered through the last 6 years "Bo Nix-esque" would be a welcomed addition to the roster.  I don't think too many people in Denver are complaining either.  I do think Ward/Sanders probably grade out better than Nix did at this point last year.  So if anybody looking back now would have been ok with Nix at 6 you'd think they would almost certainly be ok with Sanders/Ward at 3. 

Having said that, the more I look at it the more I feel like the drop from Ward/Sanders to Dart/Milroe isn't nearly as far as the drop from Carter/Hunter/Johnson to the next tier at those respective spots.  So if they have intel that Dart/Milroe will be around towards the end of the 1st round and not go surprisingly high like Nix/Penix did last year, I can't get past the feeling that the best case scenario is a combo of Carter/Hunter/Johnson and Dart/Milroe as opposed to Sanders/Ward plus the best available defender in Round 2. 

Though if they decide that Sanders or Ward is the perfect fit for Daboll and don't want to roll the dice on getting a QB later I'm not gonna be upset about it.  They need to give me a reason to believe that there might be a light at the end of this tunnel and the only thing that's going to do that is a new young QB that has talent. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on January 23, 2025, 09:14:44 AMI'm not as down as you on the class though there aren't the Williams/Daniels top tier prospects in it.  I think after what we've suffered through the last 6 years "Bo Nix-esque" would be a welcomed addition to the roster.  I don't think too many people in Denver are complaining either.  I do think Ward/Sanders probably grade out better than Nix did at this point last year.  So if anybody looking back now would have been ok with Nix at 6 you'd think they would almost certainly be ok with Sanders/Ward at 3. 

Having said that, the more I look at it the more I feel like the drop from Ward/Sanders to Dart/Milroe isn't nearly as far as the drop from Carter/Hunter/Johnson to the next tier at those respective spots.  So if they have intel that Dart/Milroe will be around towards the end of the 1st round and not go surprisingly high like Nix/Penix did last year, I can't get past the feeling that the best case scenario is a combo of Carter/Hunter/Johnson and Dart/Milroe as opposed to Sanders/Ward plus the best available defender in Round 2. 

Though if they decide that Sanders or Ward is the perfect fit for Daboll and don't want to roll the dice on getting a QB later I'm not gonna be upset about it.  They need to give me a reason to believe that there might be a light at the end of this tunnel and the only thing that's going to do that is a new young QB that has talent. 

I don't think Nix would have had the year he had with Denver if he was on the Giants.   If you consider my three pillars of support:


Coaching-  Outside of Andy Reid, there isn't a better QB coach than Sean Payton.  Brian Daboll's historic work with QBs has been mixed.

Pass Protection-  While Nix had a weak group of receivers to throw to (ranked 28th per PFF), the pass protection was ranked number one by PFF.   Compare that to NYG, which actually had the 29th-ranked receivers to go with the 28th-ranked pass blocking.

This is the issue that I think the Giants need to address.  They need to make NYG a more QB-friendly playing environment.  If they don't ,taking a flyer on anything less than an elite prospect is not likely to yield the results we are seeking.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 23, 2025, 09:24:47 AMI don't think Nix would have had the year he had with Denver if he was on the Giants.   If you consider my three pillars of support:


Coaching-  Outside of Andy Reid, there isn't a better QB coach than Sean Payton.  Brian Daboll's historic work with QBs has been mixed.

Pass Protection-  While Nix had a weak group of receivers to throw to (ranked 28th per PFF), the pass protection was ranked number one by PFF.   Compare that to NYG, which actually had the 29th-ranked receivers to go with the 28th-ranked pass blocking.

This is the issue that I think the Giants need to address.  They need to make NYG a more QB-friendly playing environment.  If they don't ,taking a flyer on anything less than an elite prospect is not likely to yield the results we are seeking.

I think you might be underestimating just how bad Daniel Jones actually is at QB.  I think Nix would have been a significant improvement and likely would have helped out the OL and WR grades simply by not taking as many sacks and getting the ball to the consistently wide open WRs.  Even if Nix didn't play as well as he did in Denver, that would still be an improvement over what we have endured. 

I think the OL when healthy is actually pretty good and they're likely to add another starting guard either via Free agency or the draft this season.  The WRs with Nabers being elite and Wandale being very good in the slot are definitely good quality.  Hyatt on the other side now that they will probably have no choice but to put petty differences aside and play the guy will probably be an improvement there too.  Theo is fine as a TE and should improve after his 1st season in the NFL. And Tracy showed a LOT for a rookie.  The pieces around the QB are there.  And they are plentiful. 

They don't need Jayden Daniels to come in here (though it would certainly be nice) they just need a guy that can read a defense and throw it to a wide open WR on occasion.  Simply getting that will make this team exponentially better.

Quote from: Gmo11 on January 23, 2025, 11:16:48 AMI think you might be underestimating just how bad Daniel Jones actually is at QB.  I think Nix would have been a significant improvement and likely would have helped out the OL and WR grades simply by not taking as many sacks and getting the ball to the consistently wide open WRs.  Even if Nix didn't play as well as he did in Denver, that would still be an improvement over what we have endured. 

I think the OL when healthy is actually pretty good and they're likely to add another starting guard either via Free agency or the draft this season.  The WRs with Nabers being elite and Wandale being very good in the slot are definitely good quality.  Hyatt on the other side now that they will probably have no choice but to put petty differences aside and play the guy will probably be an improvement there too.  Theo is fine as a TE and should improve after his 1st season in the NFL. And Tracy showed a LOT for a rookie.  The pieces around the QB are there.  And they are plentiful. 

They don't need Jayden Daniels to come in here (though it would certainly be nice) they just need a guy that can read a defense and throw it to a wide open WR on occasion.  Simply getting that will make this team exponentially better.

I appreciate your point of view, but I don't think that is how the NFL works.  Take the Pats, they added an elite QB prospect and ended up with the same record they had when they didn't have a Franchise QB.   Take the Chargers, until they added an elite HC, they were enjoying as much success as the Giants despite having Herbert as their quarterback.   Look at the Bears.  They upgraded from Fields to Caleb Williams (and added Rome Odunze) and ended up winning 2 fewer games.   Another prime example is Sam Darnold, who failed miserably with the Jets (and Panthers) only to find considerable success with the Vikings.   


As for the roster, before the start of this season, I saw multiple roster talent rankings, and the Giants consistently ended in the bottom 5.   Nothing this season makes me believe that those ratings were wrong.  If you make a top 10 player list and compare that list to any of the playoff teams, it's clear the Giant's talent is lacking.  Even PFF's overall rankings for 2024 have the Giants down at 29th.   I just don't see a reason to believe that the Giants are a QB away or are in a prime position to maximize a QB's development.  Admittedly, the Giants have some cap space which means there is potential for some improvement during the free agency period.