Big Blue Huddle

If the Eagles win the Super Bowl and Barkley is named MVP, would this be the greatest season by any running back in NFL history?

Quote from: LennG on January 26, 2025, 05:57:10 PMDave Gentleman was right, Saquon Barkley is a generational talent and will be wearing a gold jacket one day. He is what we envisioned when he was drafted #2. In the right environment he would have flourished as he is now doing with the Eagles. He is the real deal.
Problem was we had nothing to support this great talent, nothing to make this future hall of famer
 achieve his potential. For the Giants and Gentleman, we basically wasted that draft pick and never really knew the talent we had until now, when we see how great he really is.
Just too bad we never had the supporting cast to really see how good we could have had it.
Now that he is gone we see how good we could have had it.

Len,

To me the frustration was that the Giants had this generational talent but the organization was so inept that they wasted the first 5 years of his career and failed to see the return a team should enjoy with a generational talent.

Quote from: LennG on January 26, 2025, 05:57:10 PMDave Gentleman was right, Saquon Barkley is a generational talent and will be wearing a gold jacket one day. He is what we envisioned when he was drafted #2. In the right environment he would have flourished as he is now doing with the Eagles. He is the real deal.
Problem was we had nothing to support this great talent, nothing to make this future hall of famer
 achieve his potential. For the Giants and Gentleman, we basically wasted that draft pick and never really knew the talent we had until now, when we see how great he really is.
Just too bad we never had the supporting cast to really see how good we could have had it.
Now that he is gone we see how good we could have had it.

But this is also precisely why you don't draft Saquon in that spot. Was never about his talent but the overall value of what he can do. There are only a handful of O-lines that could have truly taken advantage of his talent and the Giants weren't remotely close to one of them. They were always going to waste 2-3 years of his rookie deal trying to put together a competent OL for him to run behind.

The real issue is that Gettelman was brought in specifically because he was one of the few guys that was willing to take a shot at another run with Eli and they ended up moving on from Eli and trading our best player a year later anyway. The pick only looks worse and worse with every event that happened after it.

Quote from: PSUBeirut on January 26, 2025, 10:42:01 PMIf the Eagles win the Super Bowl and Barkley is named MVP, would this be the greatest season by any running back in NFL history?

What it will also show is just how dysfunctional John Mara has made the Giants organization.   A general rule in the professional world is that some bosses who don't micromanage will give their opinions.   The thing that smart people working under such bosses are aware of, is that going against those views will have consequences if things go sideways.

So imagine an organization that is so devoid of accountability and responsibility that the owner will lay out in vivid and accurate detail the downside of allowing Barkley to walk.   The GM ignores the warning and allows him to walk, and the owner's warning plays out exactly how he says it would.   In a functional organization, such a tremendous blunder would cost a man his job.  Fortunately for Joe, that doesn't happen in Giants land

Quote from: jgrangers2 on January 27, 2025, 08:27:03 AMBut this is also precisely why you don't draft Saquon in that spot. Was never about his talent but the overall value of what he can do. There are only a handful of O-lines that could have truly taken advantage of his talent and the Giants weren't remotely close to one of them. They were always going to waste 2-3 years of his rookie deal trying to put together a competent OL for him to run behind.

The real issue is that Gettelman was brought in specifically because he was one of the few guys that was willing to take a shot at another run with Eli and they ended up moving on from Eli and trading our best player a year later anyway. The pick only looks worse and worse with every event that happened after it.

That was one of the points I was trying to make. Yes Barkley at #2 would be a great pick and for the Eagles, who have the talent to support him. But for the Giants, it looked good on paper, but in reality, it was a bad pick.
People said you don't pick a RB at #2, but for a team that has all the other pieces in place, it could be an excellent pick. The Giants weren't that team
Even though Barkley had a couple of superior seasons here, we now see what he can really do.
And that post about Jones, was spot on. With the Eagles, they can't crowd the LOS as they constantly did against Jones, and Barkley has room to run.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on January 27, 2025, 08:27:03 AMBut this is also precisely why you don't draft Saquon in that spot. Was never about his talent but the overall value of what he can do. There are only a handful of O-lines that could have truly taken advantage of his talent and the Giants weren't remotely close to one of them. They were always going to waste 2-3 years of his rookie deal trying to put together a competent OL for him to run behind.

The real issue is that Gettelman was brought in specifically because he was one of the few guys that was willing to take a shot at another run with Eli and they ended up moving on from Eli and trading our best player a year later anyway. The pick only looks worse and worse with every event that happened after it.

Will never see Barkley as a bad pick.  Many of the picks after were downright awful and regardless of what you drafted at #2 that year, the team was going to stink when you follow that pick with picks like Kadarius Toney and DeAndre Baker. 

The other issue was DGs inability to get a decent coaching staff. 

Quote from: PSUBeirut on January 26, 2025, 10:42:01 PMIf the Eagles win the Super Bowl and Barkley is named MVP, would this be the greatest season by any running back in NFL history?

Good and fair question.

I wish Jim Brown were still alive to throw his two cents in.

To be fair, I would have to guess that Barkley's would definitely be in the running for it. But there are others out there whom I can think of who could be added to the conversation.

Peace!

I always disputed the Barkley pick at 2. Hated it then. Hate it now. Love Barkley. He's one of the all time great runners. But we all know the running back history in terms of value. It was terrible value. Imagine if at the time there was a GM with vision for the team. One who recognized that Eli was pretty much done and a new QB to replace him was needed to at least start the process. Instead we got a buffoon who believed with a running back, Eli was find his prime years again. The rest is history.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 27, 2025, 09:20:01 AMWill never see Barkley as a bad pick.  Many of the picks after were downright awful and regardless of what you drafted at #2 that year, the team was going to stink when you follow that pick with picks like Kadarius Toney and DeAndre Baker. 

The other issue was DGs inability to get a decent coaching staff. 

I mentioned it in my post, but the real issue with the pick was that the Giants made it thinking they still had a contention window with Eli. As talented as Barkley is, the pick was bad. The picks after it didn't help, but you drafted a guy at a position that doesn't tend to last long in the NFL while having almost no offensive line for him to run behind. QBs can do things to make it work with lesser talent, running backs can't.

Good point, it was far worse that Schoen failed to trade Barkley in 2022 (resulting in wins that cost them a QB) than it was letting him walk after 2023


https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1883901234538852680

We are again doing what we do best which is second-guessing and rationalizing after-the-fact. We do know, however, that should Saquon finish with a gold jacket, Gettleman was a much too full of xxxx Mara-crony failure to be given any credit for it. But at least, it draws our attention from mewling about the whos, whens, wheres, and whats of now this year at QB1/QB2.

Cheers!

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1883922695005561028

Quote from: LennG on January 26, 2025, 05:57:10 PMDave Gentleman was right, Saquon Barkley is a generational talent and will be wearing a gold jacket one day. He is what we envisioned when he was drafted #2. In the right environment he would have flourished as he is now doing with the Eagles. He is the real deal.
Problem was we had nothing to support this great talent, nothing to make this future hall of famer
 achieve his potential. For the Giants and Gentleman, we basically wasted that draft pick and never really knew the talent we had until now, when we see how great he really is.
Just too bad we never had the supporting cast to really see how good we could have had it.
Now that he is gone we see how good we could have had it.

I hate to say it, but I noticed it when he was here, and so did many others. I always found the criticism of Barkley on this board puzzling, and I was deeply disappointed when they let him go.

It's understandable that we, as fans, might not have seen his full potential since we weren't in camp or observing him daily. But what's Daboll's and Schoen's excuse?

This is a significant mark against them—the fact that they didn't recognize his value and allowed him to leave for what was, relatively speaking, a modest sum. In reality, they essentially pushed him out.

Good, even great, players leave teams all the time, but this situation was inexcusable. They should have recognized what they had in Barkley.

Quote from: LennG on January 26, 2025, 05:57:10 PMDave Gentleman was right, Saquon Barkley is a generational talent and will be wearing a gold jacket one day. He is what we envisioned when he was drafted #2. In the right environment he would have flourished as he is now doing with the Eagles. He is the real deal.
Problem was we had nothing to support this great talent, nothing to make this future hall of famer
 achieve his potential. For the Giants and Gentleman, we basically wasted that draft pick and never really knew the talent we had until now, when we see how great he really is.
Just too bad we never had the supporting cast to really see how good we could have had it.
Now that he is gone we see how good we could have had it.

Lenn,

Bears' fans cursed George Halas 'til the day he died for the same reason after striking lightning twice in the 1965 draft with Gayle Sayers and Dick Butkus. Neither played for a good team yet either were responsible for the majority of highlights and fan excitement not unlike what Barkley provided for the Giants. We know the "Kansas Comet" had his career cut short with a devastating knee injury and primitive surgical techniques, at the time, caused almost as much damage as the injury itself. Before he died, Sayers reflected on the advancements in today's surgical procedures and, at times, expressed bitterness that he lost a promising career because those advancements did not exist in the late 1960s. As for Butkus, he literally had no knees left when he completed his football career.

Barkley should be grateful that he has played in the NFL with the world's best medical surgeons and specialists at his disposal which, in addition to his already strong work ethic, has allowed himself to return from multiple season-ending injuries to post a career-best season in 2024.

Some Giants' fans may question "if only;" however, Bears' fans have asked that question for many more years since their legend was lost to injury and the primitive medical/surgical information/techniques of the day.

Perspective.

Peace!

I find it very interesting that many here are citing Barkley's failures as due to a lack of a supporting cast yet the same theory doesn't apply to Daniel Jones.

As to the other theory that the Jones signing was the biggest mistake in Franchise history -
Jones led the team to its' first Playoff appearance in a decade. Against a 14-3 Vikings team on the road, he threw for 300 yards and ran for 80 (Barkley ran for 37). Jones best receiver was a Practice Squad player and the usual awful offensive line.

What GM in his right mind would not resign the QB to a team friendly deal making Jones the 16th highest paid QB in the league? Instead you are asking the GM to start a total rebuild the next year with no viable QB options other than a Draft selection in the bottom of the 1st Round.