Big Blue Huddle

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/new-york-giants-2024-rookie-class-ranked-as-nfl-s-second-best/ar-AA1znx3F?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=aad64d488a5744018d20320cb65f9811&ei=24

Maybe, just maybe Schoen has gotten the hand of things and will continue to draft well. Maybe he isn't the bum some here make him out to be. Sure he has done some silly things, but he has also done some very good things. Very few new GMs step right in and start hitting home runs from the get-go.

Before we send him to the scrap heap of bad GMs, let's see what he does this year. As I said, maybe he has things figured out and will continue his successful drafts.

The Giants being #2 on the list is the good news. The bad news? Washington was #1 and Philly was #3.

Over the years, I have heard many here argue that it takes a full three seasons to form a conclusive, valid evaluation of a draft class.

Do people still believe this, or has that conventional wisdom grown long in the tooth and is no longer a widely accepted axiom among knowledgeable fans?

I honestly don't know the answer. I'm just curious what people think. Because I have seen more and more of these single year draft class rankings like the one Lenn has provided.

One draft out of three isn't amazing, and he could have got lucky. He needs to continue to kill it, and most  importantly outsmart the other five or six teams that need a QB.


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Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 19, 2025, 06:24:09 PMOver the years, I have heard many here argue that it takes a full three seasons to form a conclusive, valid evaluation of a draft class.

Do people still believe this, or has that conventional wisdom grown long in the tooth and is no longer a widely accepted axiom among knowledgeable fans?

I honestly don't know the answer. I'm just curious what people think. Because I have seen more and more of these single year draft class rankings like the one Lenn has provided.

The way I'm evaluating the draft is the number of starters or major contributors.  I'm counting 5 starters and 1 minor contributor.  Now, one could say they're all starting on a bad team and that would be true.  But, they all played well when healthy and look like NFL caliber talent

Every year I'm told our rookie class is among the best. Banks was supposedly a lock down corner. Hyatt was the next big weapon. Azeez was going to be a big time edge rusher. Let's see how these guys look over the next couple seasons.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on February 19, 2025, 07:53:40 PMEvery year I'm told our rookie class is among the best. Banks was supposedly a lock down corner. Hyatt was the next big weapon. Azeez was going to be a big time edge rusher. Let's see how these guys look over the next couple seasons.

Your comment would be more pertinent if these were said about the draft before the season.  The last draft produced on the field higher than Banks or Azeez who did have a few rookie moments and certainly higher than Hyatt who had close to none.  5 hits is impressive

Quote from: nb587 on February 19, 2025, 10:02:34 PMYour comment would be more pertinent if these were said about the draft before the season.  The last draft produced on the field higher than Banks or Azeez who did have a few rookie moments and certainly higher than Hyatt who had close to none.  5 hits is impressive

Your comment would be more pertinent if the purpose of the draft was to add individual players rather than build a roster capable of winning more than 3 games. However, even if that were true, it still doesn't mean one year is a smart measure of success.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 19, 2025, 06:24:09 PMOver the years, I have heard many here argue that it takes a full three seasons to form a conclusive, valid evaluation of a draft class.

Do people still believe this, or has that conventional wisdom grown long in the tooth and is no longer a widely accepted axiom among knowledgeable fans?

I honestly don't know the answer. I'm just curious what people think. Because I have seen more and more of these single year draft class rankings like the one Lenn has provided.

I think it's a bit of both. You can certainly draw some initial conclusions on a draft in the first season, but I don't think you can predict, with any degree of certainty, if the class will just be a flash in the pan.

But considering all the negativity around here, I'm surprised the success of JS draft last year hasn't garnered more praise. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 19, 2025, 06:24:09 PMOver the years, I have heard many here argue that it takes a full three seasons to form a conclusive, valid evaluation of a draft class.

Do people still believe this, or has that conventional wisdom grown long in the tooth and is no longer a widely accepted axiom among knowledgeable fans?

I honestly don't know the answer. I'm just curious what people think. Because I have seen more and more of these single year draft class rankings like the one Lenn has provided.

Jeff - I think you do both.  Look at Nabers.  Great first year but will he develop more or has he hit his ceiling?  Year 3 may answer that.

Also look at Banks.  First year was ok but decline after. 

Think you can eval over multiple periods.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on February 19, 2025, 07:53:40 PMEvery year I'm told our rookie class is among the best. Banks was supposedly a lock down corner. Hyatt was the next big weapon. Azeez was going to be a big time edge rusher. Let's see how these guys look over the next couple seasons.

I think there is a natural bias to assume all rookies will get better in year two, which simply isn't true.  The reality is some will get better, some will regress, and some will stay the same.  When all is said and done, you are probably more likely to get a better picture by taking the collective performance of a rookie class at face value and assuming the improvements, regressions, and stagnation will balance out.  I also think when it comes to the draft, there is a quality in quantity.  The Giants had a rather small draft class last year.

That said, here are the PFF grades for the rookie class.

WR Malik Nabers  882 snaps 86.7
S Tyler Nubin 789 snaps 65.6
CB Dru Phillips 614 snaps  77.5
TE Theo Johnson 681 snaps 51.6
RB Tyrone Tracy 647 snaps 58.4
LB Darius Muasau 435 snaps 56.8

The Giants pushed out this story, in a PR move.   

https://x.com/Giants/status/1892582479925801466

What does it matter what we think; we whose only real ability is in second-guessing after-the-fact? Which is when later on, we were told that Schoen's 2024 Draft was a pretty good one, perhaps even 2nd best overall. Of course, lest we thought of chest bumping, it was important for us to know that the Commanders did better and the Eagles almost as good.

Oh! but then, Giants fans chest bumping over a Joe Schoen Draft or just about anything else? You gotta be shitting me.

Cheers!   

Sorry, but as of now, I am NOT interested in the Commanders or the Eagles or any other team, I am only interested in the Giants getting better and this past draft sure helped us, although it didn't translate to wins on the field.
It is a building block and we need to continue to build. Sure it will take a while to catch other teams, but we need to get better, not worry about other teams.

What really boggles my mind is we have something positive and yet more and more posters feel the need to continue to post negativity over and over, even when we did achieve something special. We had a great draft yet you worry about the Commanders, the Eagles, how this draft will play out in 5 years. Right now this is a positive so stop so much of the need to make this a negative.

Quote from: LennG on February 20, 2025, 01:48:14 PMSorry, but as of now, I am NOT interested in the Commanders or the Eagles or any other team, I am only interested in the Giants getting better and this past draft sure helped us, although it didn't translate to wins on the field.
It is a building block and we need to continue to build. Sure it will take a while to catch other teams, but we need to get better, not worry about other teams.

What really boggles my mind is we have something positive and yet more and more posters feel the need to continue to post negativity over and over, even when we did achieve something special. We had a great draft yet you worry about the Commanders, the Eagles, how this draft will play out in 5 years. Right now this is a positive so stop so much of the need to make this a negative.

Len, this is nice in a pollyannaish way, but the reality is we're going through the wilderness years part 2 and no amount of finger wagging at fans is going to change that. They will change the narrative by winning games, or we will continue to repeat the same discussions year after year.