NFT--Zimmerman and Martin

[JimboWHO]

Jim,

I have to disagree.  The reality is we have to believe rather far fetched and unlikely version of events to even begin to consider letting Zimmerman off from the homicide he committed.   We know for a fact that Zimmerman stalked Martin.  We have no indication that Martin jumped him as you claim. 

As for the law this comes right out of it:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

1)  It's reasonable to assert Zimmerman initiated the confrontation so he was "not attacked" as required by law

2)  As I said a much larger man engaged in a fist fight does not have a reasonable expectation of death or serious bodily harm.

Mighty

My belief is that Lenn's summation above is pretty damn good.  Very plausible.

I just don't know why it's reasonable only to assume Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.  You have previously cited many facts, some of which do not reflect well on Zimmerman.  I accept that.  But aren't there additional facts that inform us about Martin?  Martin was a kid that was in trouble in the months leading up to his death:

He was suspended three times from school.  Last Oct. on the day following his suspension for graffitti (writing WTF on his school locker) the police visited him.  The Miami Herald reports that he was caught with a 'burglary tool' (their words)  - a flathead screwdriver - and 12 pieces of women's jewelry.  Martin said a friend had given him the stuff but he refused to reveal the friend's name.


His suspension in Feb was as a result of finding a marijuana pipe and a bag with traces of pot on him.

The blog site called WAGIST and THE DAILY CALLER have claimed they unearthed evidence that Martin maintained a Twitter account with the handle NO_LIMIT_NIGGA.  He tweeted about mostly daily life but also about guns; '2 glock 40's... b**** you got 80 problems and smoking pot 'Finna (I'm fixing to) smoke 1 wit my dawg wayne.'    

The WAGIST claims to have found a message from Martin's cousin that implied Martin attacked a bus driver;

'Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver,' a user Tweeted to Travyon's alleged account five days before he was killed.  The DAILY CALLER has found this as well.  There are 152 pages of Twitter communication.

To me at least, there is just as much here to suggest Martin initiated the battle as Zimmerman.


JJM

[MightyGiants]

Jim,

I disagree with what Len said.   I see no way that Zimmerman is not guilty.  I think we have reached a point to agree to disagree though.


Cheers,

Rich

[LennG]

Agreed

[Derach]

I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of murder but of manslaughter.  He is at least as guilty as someone who has had one too many at the local pub and has the misfortune of being involved in a traffic accident that wasn't his fault, but his blood alcohol level mandates that he be tried for manslaughter. 

Again, a rent-a-cop with a concealed weapon has to share at least the same level of responsibility as a 'buzzed' driver for the 'accidental' loss of a human life.  (Florida state laws notwithstanding).

[JimboWHO]

I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of murder but of manslaughter.  He is at least as guilty as someone who has had one too many at the local pub and has the misfortune of being involved in a traffic accident that wasn't his fault, but his blood alcohol level mandates that he be tried for manslaughter. 

Again, a rent-a-cop with a concealed weapon has to share at least the same level of responsibility as a 'buzzed' driver for the 'accidental' loss of a human life.  (Florida state laws notwithstanding).

Sort of a poor analogy.  There was nothing accidental about Zimmerman shooting Martin.  He didn't accidently kill Martin like your 'buzzed' driver does.

Zimmerman, his injuries, and the eyewitnesses tell a story of Zimmerman screaming as he's being bashed by Martin.  Zimmerman intends to shoot Martin to save himself.

Separately, the theory of Zimmeman somehow attacking Martin just doesn't wash.  Think about it - the guy with the gun doesn't assault somebody else.  He's got a gun that can do all his talking.  And why risk a struggle where the other guy gets hold of your gun?  Doesn't make sense.

JJM

[jimmyz]

I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of murder but of manslaughter.  He is at least as guilty as someone who has had one too many at the local pub and has the misfortune of being involved in a traffic accident that wasn't his fault, but his blood alcohol level mandates that he be tried for manslaughter. 

Again, a rent-a-cop with a concealed weapon has to share at least the same level of responsibility as a 'buzzed' driver for the 'accidental' loss of a human life.  (Florida state laws notwithstanding).

Sort of a poor analogy.  There was nothing accidental about Zimmerman shooting Martin.  He didn't accidently kill Martin like your 'buzzed' driver does.

Zimmerman, his injuries, and the eyewitnesses tell a story of Zimmerman screaming as he's being bashed by Martin.  Zimmerman intends to shoot Martin to save himself.

Separately, the theory of Zimmeman somehow attacking Martin just doesn't wash.  Think about it - the guy with the gun doesn't assault somebody else.  He's got a gun that can do all his talking.  And why risk a struggle where the other guy gets hold of your gun?  Doesn't make sense.

JJM

That's an interesting take but I cant help but think he is a coward.  That pistol gave him the shot of courage he needed to confront the teenage boy.  This was just a disingenuous attempt to be a tough guy that backfired and he ended up needing his pistol to bail himself out.

[JimboWHO]

I don't think Zimmerman is guilty of murder but of manslaughter.  He is at least as guilty as someone who has had one too many at the local pub and has the misfortune of being involved in a traffic accident that wasn't his fault, but his blood alcohol level mandates that he be tried for manslaughter. 

Again, a rent-a-cop with a concealed weapon has to share at least the same level of responsibility as a 'buzzed' driver for the 'accidental' loss of a human life.  (Florida state laws notwithstanding).

Sort of a poor analogy.  There was nothing accidental about Zimmerman shooting Martin.  He didn't accidently kill Martin like your 'buzzed' driver does.

Zimmerman, his injuries, and the eyewitnesses tell a story of Zimmerman screaming as he's being bashed by Martin.  Zimmerman intends to shoot Martin to save himself.

Separately, the theory of Zimmeman somehow attacking Martin just doesn't wash.  Think about it - the guy with the gun doesn't assault somebody else.  He's got a gun that can do all his talking.  And why risk a struggle where the other guy gets hold of your gun?  Doesn't make sense.

JJM

That's an interesting take but I cant help but think he is a coward.  That pistol gave him the shot of courage he needed to confront the teenage boy.  This was just a disingenuous attempt to be a tough guy that backfired and he ended up needing his pistol to bail himself out.

I firmly believe that the main stream media (MSM) has come to the defense of the Martin family and has attempted to advance the narrative "innocent teen killed by reckless vigilante."   A couple of off-the-cuff examples include the edited news report by NBC that had smeared Zimmerman;

This is how a NBC program portrayed a segment of Zimmerman's 911 call:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he