Is a 1st Round TE off the table?

[MP21WAYS2PAY]

With the signing of TE Rhett Ellison & WR Brandon Marshall, is a 1st round TE off the table?   

If our standard package is going to be 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, it is hard to find more than 40%of the snaps playing time for another TE. Between the number of targets to spread around, and spliting playing time with a blocking TE or WR3, and some promise shown by Jerrel Adams as a recieving TE, it is difficult to see the value. 

Personally I think Engram/Howard/Njoku would be great additions, but I have a hard time believing this front office sees that as a need now.

[MightyGiants]

I wouldn't hesitate to draft Howard or Njoku with the first pick in the draft.  I would love the Giants trio of TEs to be Ellison Howard/Njoku and Adams (never was a Will Tye fan).    That would allow the Giants to start mixing it up and running some 12 personnel sets which should help the rushing attack.

I don't think that it would be worth drafting Engram as he is, in my opinion, a tier lower.


That said, if the a starting LT is still available to draft or a really good edge rusher, it would be a very difficult decision. 

[UKGiantsFan]

I think that first round may be off the table but it's far from off the table on the second day (rounds 2 & 3).

Here's why:

- Rhett Ellison gives us flexibility and blocking.
- He'll undoubtedly catch some balls but he isn't going to be on the field every down or even play every down at TE when he is on the field.
- He'll play FB plenty, perhaps even as much as he plays TE because it allows us to diversify the offense and get away from the proclivity of '11' personnel and signposting play calls.
- Ellison has only caught 51 career passes. We're not talking about a guy who suddenly became the answer to the issues at TE in the passing game just because he changed teams.
- The ONLY guy who should be on the field every down apart from Eli and the OL's is OBJ.
- Adding a down the field weapon in the seam  at TE creates mismatches and will give the WR's more room to operate on crossing routes underneath as well as hold the Safety that split second longer.
- That also means that opponents can't sit in cover two as they did last year knowing neither Tye or Donnell offered much deep.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I would certainly think that a TE is still on the table in the 1st round (assuming the top studs were still there). Last year we had DRC and spent a fortune on Jackrabbit and had two very solid CBs. And then we drafted a top CB in round 1. That should be all you have to know about how the FO thinks. They are going to take the top player on their board period. If it happens to be a TE, they'll grab him. If they have a DT or DE or CB ranked highest - that's where they will go.

I have a gut feeling that the Giants are looking at a stud player in the first and it doesn't necessarily mean it's a TE (just my opinion), but they could be looking at picking up a Bucky Hodges or Jake Butt on day two. Time will tell of course. Regardless - I have to think the Giants will go with their own board rankings and take the guy at the top of their board.

[MightyGiants]

I would also add that the team has an aging Brandon Marshall on only a 2 year contract.  So the Giants could use a nice tall receiving threat longer term, which drafting a good TE would bring.

[Ed Vette]

In my opinion, you have to look at what Jerry Reese and his Team believe after years of working the Draft feel is a position worthy of a first round Pick. Of course the Giants are not in second round territory but they are in the bottom third of the selection. They have shown that OL, Receiver, DL and DB are worthy of first round selection. QB may also be included because of Eli's age and fall from effectiveness off the previous season. Perhaps they will look at the grades of the players available at those positions and if they are weak look down and see that their second round choice may not be there because of a run on a position.

For a TE or RB to be picked in the first round I think the player would have to be very special.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I think that the only time the Giants burn a first on a "need" position, is when there is a tie between a couple or more players on the top of their board and since it's a toss up, they go with the need pick. Otherwise, they'll stick to the numerical rating they have on players. Reese is damn good the first two days. Maybe he was a little off when he grabbed Bromely on day two, but other than that, he usually hits good players. And maybe Bromley starts to show he's starter material this year. Who knows what he's done during the off season.

[Ed Vette]

Does anyone here know for sure what is factored into the grade system the Giants use to grade a player?

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Does anyone here know for sure what is factored into the grade system the Giants use to grade a player?

I would imagine that's a top secret among the insiders. I'm sure there's a bunch of scouts and executives sitting around a conference table with multiple TV screens and I-Pads as they go over every detail of a player. How they rank them is anybody's guess. I think they had Collins rated very high when they traded up to get him. I suspect they had Flowers and Collins rated about the same and took Flowers because it was a big need. When Collins was still on the board the next day, they pulled the trigger and what a great move it was. I can't imagine them trading up unless they had a shot at a player who was ranked way higher than any player on the board and knew he'd never be there when their turn came back around.

[Philosophers]

I like Jake Butt a lot more as an option for the Giants now that they have Ellison to improve the blocking from a TE position.  He is a pass catching TE.

[MightyGiants]

While the particulars may vary when it comes to valuing positions in the draft I would think team use to factors.   One is this, the salary cap number by position:

Quarterback: $21.395MM
Defensive end: $16.955MM
Wide receiver: $15.826MM
Running back: $12.377MM
Linebacker: $14.754MM
Offensive line: $14.444MM
Cornerback: $14.297MM
Defensive tackle: $13.468MM
Safety: $10.961MM
Tight end: $9.894MM
Punter/kicker: $4.863MM

Just note those are all offensive line positions.  No doubt if LT was factored out it would be the second highest salary position on the team.

I would think the higher the average salary the more value the player has in terms of drafting them in the first round. 

While that would suggest tight ends are not all that valuable, I would suggest that it might be a bit of an anomaly as tag numbers are calculated from the top 5 salaries at the position and frankly I don't see 5 elite TEs in the league (the draft has been weak at the TE position for quite some time now).   

In terms of offensive linemen I think the order in terms of salary is broken down:

LT > G > RT > C

The second factor would be how difficult is it to obtain a player at that position.    Teams almost never let a franchise QB or a quality LT hit the open market, so I think that pushes up the draft value of those two positions (along with their salaries).

[todge]

Does anyone here know for sure what is factored into the grade system the Giants use to grade a player?

The late GM Jr. publication once included a typical scouting sheet used by most.  I tried but couldn't access it. Perhaps Rich has access to something?

[Shoelessjoe]

I like Jake Butt a lot more as an option for the Giants now that they have Ellison to improve the blocking from a TE position.  He is a pass catching TE.

Phil, do you know the status Jake Butt's injury?

[Jaime]

As of this moment?
In order of best Player avail;

[Philosophers]

Shoeless - Butt tore his ACL in the bowl game.  It was his second ACL tear and surgery but it was to the other leg.  He had surgery the first week of January and noted that it went really well and he was already doing rehab by 2nd week of January.  He previously tore his other ACL in February 2014, had surgery and was back on the field playing in October 2014 so it appears he really works hard to rehab and gets back pretty quickly.  All good news.

I like the kid a lot.  He's big with great hands, very disciplined and works very hard.  What I don't love is that his blocking is average as he plays "high" and less in a low anchored position and he does not have explosive speed/athleticism, however he gets downfield all the time due to good route running and going up to snatch the ball in the air so he is not a liability running downfield routes.