Everything COVID-19

[MightyGiants]

a few thoughts on the recent posts


Herman Caine-  When I talk to people about Covid, I warn them to be extra careful around those not wearing masks or otherwise engaging in risky behavior.   I tell them that such people are a double threat.  First, they are not wearing a mask to there is a risk posed by not wearing one.   What I also tell them is I consider these people high-risk individuals because their reckless behavior puts them at greater risk of being infected,   So you should steer very clear of the non-mask wearers.  As for where Herman Caine contracted Corona Virus, the timeline suggests he COULD have contracted the virus at Trump's rally.   It's not certain that is where he contracted the disease, and since he was following Trump's "masks are not cool" policy, there are many other places that he could have contracted the disease as well.

Tim, you're correct about this disease impacting African Americans at a disproportionate rate.   Herman Caine was well off, so most likely, he had the best medical care money can buy.   I had attributed part of the African American impact on cities being a hotbed for the virus spread due to the crowding.   If memory serves, African Americans are more prone to hypertension and cardiac disease, which are both risk factors for poor outcomes from the disease.   I would also suggest that his refusal to wear masks means he likely received a higher dose of the virus.   While studies are difficult to conduct to prove the idea that higher doses of the virus lead to worst results (you can't keep infecting people with higher and higher doses of a disease that can kill) from what we know of other diseases, it's likely true.  So his lack of a mask means he got a higher dose from the infected person(s) he came into contact with and could have contributed to his death

BOB

You said you have been reading and hearing about masks being worthless or possibly worse than worthless.    STOP...  stop reading and listening to who or what is making those dangerous false claims

Here is the SCIENCE

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent


As for the "shame" patrol, if you support Donald Trump, you lost the right to "shame" anyone, in my opinion

[T200]

Rich:  Serious question about masks.  A lot of posts talk about "masks" but from what I've read and heard recently, just any old mask will not do the job, and could actually be counterproductive.

Specifically, there are reports indicating that if you're not wearing a surgical grade N95 respirator mask, you are at least wasting your time and money, and maybe doing more harm than good.

Apparently, masks made of cloth (and a few other types) might actually be worse than wearing no mask at all.  What's the actual current consensus?

Bob

For me, this is one of those 'common sense' situations where consensus doesn't matter. I prefer to use my own brain and eyes.

If the virus is transmitting through expelled and inhaled virus particles (coughing, breathing, sneezing) then why would a covering, ANY covering that inhibits those particles to be exhaled or inhaled provide some sort of protection? It doesn't have to be 100% or even 90% effective. To me, anything that can reduce the chances of me passing it on or catching it is effective, even at 10-20%.

[Bob In PA]

For me, this is one of those 'common sense' situations where consensus doesn't matter. I prefer to use my own brain and eyes.

If the virus is transmitting through expelled and inhaled virus particles (coughing, breathing, sneezing) then why would a covering, ANY covering that inhibits those particles to be exhaled or inhaled provide some sort of protection? It doesn't have to be 100% or even 90% effective. To me, anything that can reduce the chances of me passing it on or catching it is effective, even at 10-20%.

Tim: Yes, but there are other issues with cloth masks in addition to those you are correctly considering.

For example, cloth masks can retain particles in a way that you can infect yourself by touching (with your hands, for instance) particles on the outside of the masks that have been blocked from your face. 

The whole mask thing is very very complicated (example: the Fauci change of public stance) and that's why I have asked Rich to tell us the current consensus and respond when he has time to consider the matter.

Bob

[T200]

Tim: Yes, but there are other issues with cloth masks in addition to those you are correctly considering.

For example, cloth masks can retain particles in a way that you can infect yourself by touching (with your hands, for instance) particles on the outside of the masks that have been blocked from your face. 

The whole mask thing is very very complicated (example: the Fauci change of public stance) and that's why I have asked Rich to tell us the current consensus and respond when he has time to consider the matter.

Bob

And that's why they continue to say wash your hands or use hand sanitizer. Additionally, masks are supposed to be cleaned after each use (I have multiple) or thrown away for the disposable ones.

[MightyGiants]

Tim: Yes, but there are other issues with cloth masks in addition to those you are correctly considering.

For example, cloth masks can retain particles in a way that you can infect yourself by touching (with your hands, for instance) particles on the outside of the masks that have been blocked from your face. 

The whole mask thing is very very complicated (example: the Fauci change of public stance) and that's why I have asked Rich to tell us the current consensus and respond when he has time to consider the matter.

Bob

Masks are only complicated if you are looking for an excuse to not wear one.  If you are simply looking to protect yourself and others and limit the spread of the disease, masks are as straight forward as a bullet "proof" vest for lawenforcement/military or a helmet for motorcycle riders

[Bob In PA]

BOB

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

Rich: Thanks for the link.  Bob

PS. So nothing has changed since July 11th, the date of the update?

[MightyGiants]

Rich: Thanks for the link.  Bob

PS. So nothing has changed since July 11th, the date of the update?

Bob,

The efficacy of masks and face coverings preventing the spread of Covid is pretty much-established science.   It's highly unlikely you will see anything change in that regard. 

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

The efficacy of masks and face coverings preventing the spread of Covid is pretty much-established science.   It's highly unlikely you will see anything change in that regard.

Thanks again.

[MightyGiants]

Tim: Yes, but there are other issues with cloth masks in addition to those you are correctly considering.

For example, cloth masks can retain particles in a way that you can infect yourself by touching (with your hands, for instance) particles on the outside of the masks that have been blocked from your face. 

The whole mask thing is very very complicated (example: the Fauci change of public stance) and that's why I have asked Rich to tell us the current consensus and respond when he has time to consider the matter.

Bob

I HAVE to address this.   I do not doubt that Bob has heard this dangerous propaganda that can kill you.   Let me break it down:


"Cloth masks can retain particles in a way that can infect yourself by touching those particles"-   First, you have to ask how those particles got there.   They didn't just float and land on the mask; otherwise, your pants, shirt, and exposed skin would be equally dangerous.   Rather those particles deposited on your mask when you inhaled.   So this is the critical part:

IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A MASK THOSE SAME PARTICLES THAT BOB'S SOURCE SAID WERE DANGEROUS ON YOUR MASK WOULD BE DEPOSITED IN YOUR NOSE, THROAT, AND LUNGS

So to go back to Tim's common-sense approach, you have to ask yourself-  would you rather have the virus particle on your mask or in your body?


So that is what the propaganda Bob read/heard-  they tried to make the case that virus particles are more dangerous on your mask than in your body

[jimv]

...As for the "shame" patrol, if you support Donald Trump, you lost the right to "shame" anyone, in my opinion

That's right, Rich It IS just YOUR opinion.

[MightyGiants]

That's right, Rich It IS just YOUR opinion.

It is my opinion, but I can state as a matter of fact that there are many other people who share that same opinion so it's not "just" my opinion

[jimv]

It is my opinion, but I can state as a matter of fact that there are many other people who share that same opinion so it's not "just" my opinion

I realize you must always have the last word on anything.  But, there are also MANY people who DON'T share that opinion.

Now, go ahead & have your last word.

[MightyGiants]

I realize you must always have the last word on anything.  But, there are also MANY people who DON'T share that opinion.

Now, go ahead & have your last word.

Jim,

I know you and a few others must always have the last word (I consider who has the last word such a petty and nonsensical concern I don't even pay attention to it) so you may have your precious last word.  It's all yours

[Bob In PA]

Masks are only complicated if you are looking for an excuse to not wear one.  If you are simply looking to protect yourself and others and limit the spread of the disease, masks are as straight forward as a bullet "proof" vest for lawenforcement/military or a helmet for motorcycle riders

Rich: Although I am NOT looking for an excuse to avoid wearing a mask, I nevertheless find the issue complicated in one tiny respect.  I am NOT referring to the link you cited.  It's very straightforward.

And I'm not going to discuss it, because to do so might cause confusion and muddle the message of the link.

I do agree 100 percent that wearing a mask is always better than not for preventing the wearer from spreading the virus (or other microbes) to other people.

Bob 

[Bob In PA]

I HAVE to address this.   I do not doubt that Bob has heard this dangerous propaganda that can kill you.   Let me break it down:

"Cloth masks can retain particles in a way that can infect yourself by touching those particles"-   First, you have to ask how those particles got there.   They didn't just float and land on the mask; otherwise, your pants, shirt, and exposed skin would be equally dangerous.   Rather those particles deposited on your mask when you inhaled.   So this is the critical part:

IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A MASK THOSE SAME PARTICLES THAT BOB'S SOURCE SAID WERE DANGEROUS ON YOUR MASK WOULD BE DEPOSITED IN YOUR NOSE, THROAT, AND LUNGS

So to go back to Tim's common-sense approach, you have to ask yourself-  would you rather have the virus particle on your mask or in your body?

So that is what the propaganda Bob read/heard-  they tried to make the case that virus particles are more dangerous on your mask than in your body

Rich: It's a good explanation.

Would have been an excellent explanation without the use of the word propaganda. 

The point is.... be careful with dirty masks, no matter what they're made of.

Bob