Database of "Canceled" People

[Bob In PA]

This is not a joke. Far from it.  There is an article about the website below, which I have edited significantly in order to limit the size of this post.

Older members will recall the days of McCarthyism in the 1950's.  This is no different, IMO.    Bob

https://www.canceledpeople.com/home

When political data scientist David Shor got fired for sharing research that found peaceful protests were more politically effective than violent protests, a skilled manual laborer in the Mountain West had an idea: Why not create a database of so-called cancellations?

Over the next several months he started researching documented instances of cancel culture across the world and soliciting submissions. His project, CanceledPeople.org (and .com), is approaching 200 listings from the U.S., Canada, U.K., Germany, France, Indonesia and Australia.  The website got a boost of attention earlier this month when Christina Hoff Sommers, the American Enterprise Institute scholar and "Factual Feminist" YouTube host, tweeted about the "well-sourced database" of cancellations.  In an interview, the creator pulled back the veil on the project. (He declined to identify himself, except for his geography and field of work, but he did provide screenshots of account records verifying his ownership and operation of the site.)  "Canceled People is not part of a larger organization," he wrote in an email last week. "It's really just a part-time project of mine, with my girlfriend helping out occasionally." Neither is an academic, as might be guessed from the project's research protocols, which lay out the rules for adding and removing people from public view.  The tweet by Sommers triggered 75 submissions, which each take 20-30 minutes to review, the creator said.  "Usually it's fairly clear whether or not they belong there, but some cases are tough," he said. "It would be good to have a panel of experts to discuss and vote on those cases.

[MightyGiants]

Does it contain the Dixie Chicks?

Does it contain Colin Kapernick?

How about Chris Krebs?

Is Michael Atkinson in the database?

Did Samantha Bee make their list?

How about Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman?

How about Nike?   I mean the right thinks corporations are people so surely they got on the list

What about Starbucks?   I lost count of the number of times they were the target of cancelation

Remember Kathy Griffin?

NASCAR must have earned a place on that list after they banned Confederate flags, even the NFL and NBA could get in on that action

Well I will munch on some "freedom fries" while I think of some more names

Much like "fake news" cancel culture is just another toxic product of the right-wing propaganda/hate machine.   They created the false "fake news" claim so that their consumers could easily dismiss facts in favor of their false right-wing propaganda.   Now that those who are peddling the false right-wing talking points are being called out for the false claims and being held accountable for the destruction of those false claims cause, the right-wing propaganda/hate machine coined the term and idea of "cancel culture".    It was the perfect invention, as my list shows, canceling people they didn't agree with has been a favored tactic of the right for some time, and so they could project their fault on their hated target of non-right-wing Americans and it would allow them to continue to spew lies and hate which has badly damaged our nation

The right has consistently preferred attack over defending or justifying their own misdeeds.  So attacking people calling for truth and calling out hate, with "cancel culture" claims felt so "right" for them.

[Bob In PA]

Does it contain the Dixie Chicks? 
Does it contain Colin Kapernick?
How about Chris Krebs?
Is Michael Atkinson in the database?
Did Samantha Bee make their list?
How about Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman?
How about Nike?   I mean the right thinks corporations are people so surely they got on the list
What about Starbucks?   I lost count of the number of times they were the target of cancelation
Remember Kathy Griffin?
NASCAR must have earned a place on that list after they banned Confederate flags, even the NFL and NBA could get in on that action

Well I will munch on some "freedom fries" while I think of some more names

Much like "fake news" cancel culture is just another toxic product of the right-wing propaganda/hate machine.   They created the false "fake news" claim so that their consumers could easily dismiss facts in favor of their false right-wing propaganda.   Now that those who are peddling the false right-wing talking points are being called out for the false claims and being held accountable for the destruction of those false claims cause, the right-wing propaganda/hate machine coined the term and idea of "cancel culture".    It was the perfect invention, as my list shows, canceling people they didn't agree with has been a favored tactic of the right for some time, and so they could project their fault on their hated target of non-right-wing Americans and it would allow them to continue to spew lies and hate which has badly damaged our nation

The right has consistently preferred attack over defending or justifying their own misdeeds.  So attacking people calling for truth and calling out hate, with "cancel culture" claims felt so "right" for them.

Rich: Except for tossing in your usual Democrat talking points, needless name-calling and unnecessary pejoratives, THIS is the type of responsive post that actually furthers the conversation.

I agree. Those people were also canceled.  It always goes both ways.  I'll never back off that point.... because it is an undeniable truth.  My reply is.....

Have those people submitted their names to the site? Doubtful, but I say... why not? Someone (you perhaps?) should propose their cases for consideration. The response (if any) will tell us a lot about the site, IMO.

Bob

[MightyGiants]

Rich: Except for tossing in your usual Democrat talking points, needless name-calling and unnecessary pejoratives, THIS is the type of responsive post that actually furthers the conversation.

I agree. Those people were also canceled.  It always goes both ways.  I'll never back off that point.... because it is an undeniable truth.  My reply is.....

Have those people submitted their names to the site? Doubtful, but I say... why not? Someone (you perhaps?) should propose their cases for consideration. The response (if any) will tell us a lot about the site, IMO.

Bob

Bob,

One thing I am extremely mindful of is "framing".   Framing is everything in political discussion and the right-wing are masters of framing that is not conducive to good and productive debate, but rather to frame issues in a manner that benefits their agenda.

You are trying to frame me calling out these ideological framing as being insulting and not "allowing for good conversation".   Only the conversation is built on the false frame of "cancel culture".   It's little different than the right's effort to ignore racial inequalities and issues by hyper-focusing on obscure ideas like "critical race theory"

Rather you would have been non-partisan and non-ideologue and talked about false messaging, hate messaging, their role in the attacks on our nation's capital, the accountability of a President that tells lies that harm our nation and caused the attacks, the role of social media both in stopping harmful actions, as well as their role in acting as the new age town square.  Where do you strike the balance between freedom and accountability?

You just pushed right-wing propaganda framing of issues and then lashed out because my response was "I will have none of this"

If you truly want a productive conversation you need to drop the ideological framing that is essentially propaganda and discuss the foundational issues I brought up in a fair and non-biased manner.  What this thread is equivalent to saying  Derek Chauvin went to jail for doing his job.  How many more police officers are going to be jailed for just doing their job?  All the while ignoring what got him jailed.  That is exactly what the fake "cancel culture" claims are like

[Bob In PA]

One thing I am extremely mindful of is "framing".   Framing is everything in political discussion and the right-wing are masters of framing that is not conducive to good and productive debate, but rather to frame issues in a manner that benefits their agenda.

Don't confuse my thoughts/views with the contents of the article reproduced in the original post. I did not write the article. It was included because it provides some information about the database.
My point (i.e., this thread) is about free speech, which hopefully was clearly stated: McCarthyism was bad, and the so-called "cancel culture" is just as bad (no matter who is being canceled).

You are trying to frame me calling out these ideological framing as being insulting and not "allowing for good conversation".   Only the conversation is built on the false frame of "cancel culture".   It's little different than the right's effort to ignore racial inequalities and issues by hyper-focusing on obscure ideas like "critical race theory"

My reply was an attempt to point out that IMO it's better to respond to a post with a constructive ideas (which IMO you did) without including talking points and matters unrelated to the topic (which you also did).

Rather you would have been non-partisan and non-ideologue and talked about false messaging, hate messaging, their role in the attacks on our nation's capital, the accountability of a President that tells lies that harm our nation and caused the attacks, the role of social media both in stopping harmful actions, as well as their role in acting as the new age town square.  Where do you strike the balance between freedom and accountability?

This thread is not about those topics.  IMO, you are attempting to drag your "favorite" issues into a discussion about something else, rather than sticking to the subject of free speech.

You just pushed right-wing propaganda framing of issues and then lashed out because my response was "I will have none of this"

I disagree, although I do see your point. I will address it. First, don't confuse the database with the opinion piece that was written ABOUT the database. The writer of the article obviously is coming at the issue from a "slant" but the slant does not change the fact that people are being "silenced" and denied the Constitutional right to freely express their views in a public forum. Second, it is an open question (to me) whether the database is being compiled scientifically by fair-minded individuals who would gladly include the group of people you mentioned in their database if their "cases" meet the criteria for inclusion - or - whether the database is just some nut willy-nilly highlighting what happened to a bunch of people he likes because he and his girlfriend have nothing better to do with their time.

If you truly want a productive conversation you need to drop the ideological framing that is essentially propaganda and discuss the foundational issues I brought up in a fair and non-biased manner.  What this thread is equivalent to saying  Derek Chauvin went to jail for doing his job.  How many more police officers are going to be jailed for just doing their job?  All the while ignoring what got him jailed.  That is exactly what the fake "cancel culture" claims are like.

I agree that the term "cancel culture" itself is term used by one political party more than the other. However, the thought behind creation of the database is not a false frame.  Free speech means free for ALL PEOPLE.
As for your example, it is quite possible the operator of the database is coming at it from a "slant."  The means of discovering the truth is to submit names (such as those you mentioned) and gauge the reaction.

Bob

[MightyGiants]

Bob,

Cancel culture is nothing more but a false framing device used by the right to defend the undefendable.  When President Donald Trump lied and declared that the election was stolen from him he essentially engaged in the classic yelling "fire" in a crowded movie house.   He told just as dangerous a lie (which was amplified by social media and the right-wing propaganda machine) and there were just as damaging consequences.

If there was an honestly framed debate it would be about freedom of speech, spreading false information, accountability, and consequences.   However, since most people agree that free speech does not allow one to yell fire in a crowded movie house the right-wing propaganda machine deployed the false framing of "cancel culture" that focused on consequences to those pushing the false dangerous claims while ignoring why the consequences to the nation of those false claims.  It allows the right to defend the unethical and immoral actions of one of their political heroes.  Of course, it's more than just hero worship.  If they really took a cold hard look at the issue they would realize their own culpability in the terrible events that transpired.  That is why this false framing is so readily adopted by so many.

Of course, the other aspect of this issue is slightly less cut and dry (but not by much) and that involves hate speech.  We have seen people being attacked  (like Asians) as a result of hate speech associated with Covid. So hate speech has even resulted in people being killed.  So the question of how much does free speech allows one to spread hatred for others is another complex issue.  One that can not be explored through the false frame of "cancel culture"

[FL GMAN]

I think this is a great idea and would be interested to see the results. I brought up the story about Critical race Theory last week and the math teacher who wrote an article about it. He was fired less than a week later.  The school said he distorted their words but he has now released a tape with the principle agreeing with him. Let the cases speak for themselves I would love to see it.

[MightyGiants]

I think this is a great idea and would be interested to see the results. I brought up the story about Critical race Theory last week and the math teacher who wrote an article about it. He was fired less than a week later.  The school said he distorted their words but he has now released a tape with the principle agreeing with him. Let the cases speak for themselves I would love to see it.

He got fired for misrepresenting things.  Typical right-wing behavior.  I am sure the tape doesn't support the math teacher's false claims, but that doesn't stop the right-wing propaganda machine from pretending it does.  It will play because it plays to the fundamental false belief of the right, that they are all victims (which is ironic when you consider how many Americans they dislike/hate/harm).  This is a perfect example.  The hate-filled right describes the school as "woke" and talk about their anti-American concept of "wokism" (which is hatred for Americans who believe in equality and respect for all), yet they portray themselves as the victims (while peddling their hate)

Look at these titles

Biden Administration Prioritizes "Wokeism," Critical Race Theory In Schools


https://fee.org/articles/biden-administration-prioritizes-wokeism-critical-race-theory-in-schools/


Why the right is creating this false framing and focus is to direct attention away from REAL ISSUES like this

Here is how police treat INNOCENT brown-skinned soldiers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOZwRBXfFmU


This is what we should be focusing on as Americans, but the right-wing propaganda machine has people focusing on nonsense like "critical race theory"

It's just another example of the power of false framing that the right routinely employs.   It's a lot easier for parents to be hostile and oppose teaching that all men (and women) were created equal, if they reframe it as a scary concept that kids are being indoctrinated into a scary "critical race theory" rather than saying, I don't like my white kids learning that everyone is equal and should all be treated with respect.

False framing has been around for a long time but the practitioners are becoming more skilled and the right-wing propaganda machine more power the damage it's inflicting on our nation more devastating

[FL GMAN]

The tape absolutely confirms what he said. Instead of getting angry just listen to the tape. The principle agreed it makes these kids feel bad about themselves. You always get angry at anything you don't agree with and criticize the messenger. There may be a million cases that support your position but that doesn't make this case wrong. Just listen to the tape it is undeniable. Do you have kids? Would you want your kids to feel bad about something they had no part in, I certainly don't.

[MightyGiants]

The tape absolutely confirms what he said. Instead of getting angry just listen to the tape. The principle agreed it makes these kids feel bad about themselves. You always get angry at anything you don't agree with and criticize the messenger. There may be a million cases that support your position but that doesn't make this case wrong. Just listen to the tape it is undeniable. Do you have kids? Would you want your kids to feel bad about something they had no part in, I certainly don't.

I tend not to argue with people I am firing.  This secret onesided recording will only convince those that are conditioned to believe.  Still I am will to listen to the entire tape if you provide it

[FL GMAN]

Unfortunately I am technically deficient and don't know how to put it on here. I am sure you can get it on youtube. BTW the guy was a math teacher at the school for 20 years. You would think he would be the least likely person to be involved in this. If you can't get it on youtube I will try to get help from my son when he is over to move it to this site. I really don't want to argue but rather to understand what is going on and why. The Virginia math change in the high school curriculum is another example that has me confused. I want everyone to get the best education possible and to see all races succeed and do well. I don't think this can be accomplished by demonizing any group or by lowering standards.

[Bob In PA]

Unfortunately I am technically deficient and don't know how to put it on here. I am sure you can get it on youtube. BTW the guy was a math teacher at the school for 20 years. You would think he would be the least likely person to be involved in this. If you can't get it on youtube I will try to get help from my son when he is over to move it to this site. I really don't want to argue but rather to understand what is going on and why. The Virginia math change in the high school curriculum is another example that has me confused. I want everyone to get the best education possible and to see all races succeed and do well. I don't think this can be accomplished by demonizing any group or by lowering standards.

FL: A suggestion.... if you post here the words you searched for in order to find the video, that should be enough for any of us to also find it.  Bob

[DaveBrown74]

Cancel culture is nothing more but a false framing device used by the right to defend the undefendable. 

MG,

I don't agree with this point. Cancel culture very clearly exists, and it can easily be attributed to both sides of the spectrum (as you yourself illustrated in your first post with your list). It is a by-product of our hyper-sensitive, overly politically correct present-day society. I feel it is also harmful as it devalues actual real examples of racism, sexism, etc that actually should be condemned. When you're constantly crying wolf all the time about anything even mildly controversial, like a Dr. Seuss book that was written many decades ago, you make it that much harder for actual real cases to be taken as seriously as they should be. So not only is it excessive to the point of absurdity, but much more importantly it is doing actual harm.

[MightyGiants]

MG,

I don't agree with this point. Cancel culture very clearly exists, and it can easily be attributed to both sides of the spectrum (as you yourself illustrated in your first post with your list). It is a by-product of our hyper-sensitive, overly politically correct present-day society. I feel it is also harmful as it devalues actual real examples of racism, sexism, etc that actually should be condemned. When you're constantly crying wolf all the time about anything even mildly controversial, like a Dr. Seuss book that was written many decades ago, you make it that much harder for actual real cases to be taken as seriously as they should be. So not only is it excessive to the point of absurdity, but much more importantly it is doing actual harm.

The fake Dr. Seuss controversy actually proves my point, 100%.  There were no protests or boycotts or calls to take the books off the shelves or government regulators demanding the books be removed.  The publishers knew the racist imagines in some of their obscure books and took it upon themselves (exercising their own individual rights) to cease publishing them.   Yet the right-wing propaganda machine twisted and distorted the event to drum up more American harming hate and outrage by pretending that this was yet another example of the PC police robbing people of their precious childhoods.   The right-wing hate/propaganda network is destroying our nation.  They took a simple act of thinking maybe portraying Africans as savages with bones in their noses is a bad thing and used it to push their agenda of hatred.     The harm these fake manufactured controversies are inflicting on our nation can not be easily undone.

[FL GMAN]

The author of the story was Leah Barkoukis, the story has audio files in it that confirm the quotes in the story. The Teacher is Paul Rossi and the head of the school is George Davidson. As for Doctor Seuss I don't understand your point as I agree that there was no outcry for their removal, yet a few elites decide this is racist. I don't find Doctor Seuss racist at all and I have read many to my grandkids. Your dislike of anything you disagree with makes you angry and you always seem to say the other side is worse. I think Bob said it right bad things happen all around and to say it is just one side is naive at best.