NFT - NY Knicks - 2023-2024

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Very fair point NB, and I can't argue it whatsoever. I'm not sure what the plan would be at the 4 if we move Randle. Hart isn't really a 4, and our other bigs are clear centers. Anunoby is very clearly a 3.

I'm not sure who would take over at the 4 if we were to do some sort of a trade involving sending Randle plus picks to SA for Murray. It would probably end up being some lesser player. Hart can help a little there, but he's not really a replacement for Randle.

I'm on the same page as you. I see Hart as rotating with the 3 and 2 spot...I think we're misusing the team's talent by sticking him in the 4 behind Randle. Hart needs to be on the floor more than 20-25 minutes and so does OG, so it's a bit of a dilemma. It might be better to keep Randle and search for a solid, under the radar 4 to back him up (Obi anyone??? LOL)...especially when he's having one of his off days. Not sure who would fit that bill or what kind of trade would work

[nb587]

I'm on the same page as you. I see Hart as rotating with the 3 and 2 spot...I think we're misusing the team's talent by sticking him in the 4 behind Randle. Hart needs to be on the floor more than 20-25 minutes and so does OG, so it's a bit of a dilemma. It might be better to keep Randle and search for a solid, under the radar 4 to back him up (Obi anyone??? LOL)...especially when he's having one of his off days. Not sure who would fit that bill or what kind of trade would work

That kind of deal could not happen unless a 3rd team was involved that would bring back a 4 or Atlanta had a decent 4 to offer.  Also, the way Randle is playing, I think that trading him plus a few 1's would be overpaying.  Randle has been playing at an all star level primarily, in my opinion, because of Brunson being an excellent PG plus OG will take a good amount of load off of Randle.  I still would trade him for the right offer but would want more than I would have wanted last month.

[DaveBrown74]

Monster win by the Knicks. 36 point margin in Philly. 3-0 since the trade, with two of the wins being against quality opponents. Things may be starting to look up. I wonder if those who panned the trade on day one still hate it.

[nb587]

What was surprising about the game was a bad performance by Randle.  He couldn't throw the ball in the ocean.  OG did not have a good game offensively but he's a very good defensive player.  The Villenova boys were on tonight and Brunson was outstanding.  To win by this margin on the road against a good team was something especially getting almost nothing from Randle says something about prospects going forward.  I still think another move is coming.

[DaveBrown74]

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1743486551512727777

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Very thrilling to watch the Knicks absolutely throttle the Sixers     

I was reading...somewhere, I can't remember...that "we need to get a '6th man' to replace Quick, the 'best 6th man' in the league". Perhaps the fan is right, but for me, I think we already have him in Hart. Hart might not be the offensive shot in the arm that Quick was, but he brings incredible energy to the floor and his defense is outstanding. He's the perfect 6th man!...IMO

I'm still trying to figure out where the team needs upgrading. A "lights out" SG? A rotational piece to Randle? And we still haven't seen what Precious Achiuwa can do. He had 3 rebounds, 1for2 3pt, a block and a take away in 13 minutes of play last night (+10 while on the floor)

So really, what exactly do we need to make this team elite? I agree that it would be nice to find a dynamic playmaker to replace Quick on the second team, but that's about it in my opinion...and it's hard not to notice the maturity that Deuce has become...although, I don't think Deuce brings the same intensity that Quick brought to the second team, but he's steady and good defensively 

[DaveBrown74]

Very thrilling to watch the Knicks absolutely throttle the Sixers     

I was reading...somewhere, I can't remember...that "we need to get a '6th man' to replace Quick, the 'best 6th man' in the league". Perhaps the fan is right, but for me, I think we already have him in Hart. Hart might not be the offensive shot in the arm that Quick was, but he brings incredible energy to the floor and his defense is outstanding. He's the perfect 6th man!...IMO

I'm still trying to figure out where the team needs upgrading. A "lights out" SG? A rotational piece to Randle? And we still haven't seen what Precious Achiuwa can do. He had 3 rebounds, 1for2 3pt, a block and a take away in 13 minutes of play last night (+10 while on the floor)

So really, what exactly do we need to make this team elite? I agree that it would be nice to find a dynamic playmaker to replace Quick on the second team, but that's about it in my opinion...and it's hard not to notice the maturity that Deuce has become...although, I don't think Deuce brings the same intensity that Quick brought to the second team, but he's steady and good defensively 

I think what we are now lacking is an impact, secondary backcourt player. Grimes and McBride were good last night, but overall they're not high impact players. Quick was. I think we need a replacement for him. DeJounte Murray would be the cream of the crop of guys I would love to see us get. He's a 20 PPG guy who plays big time defense and can shoot threes. Stick him on this team somehow, and you have a championship caliber team IMO (with a healthy Robinson).

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I think what we are now lacking is an impact, secondary backcourt player. Grimes and McBride were good last night, but overall they're not high impact players. Quick was. I think we need a replacement for him. DeJounte Murray would be the cream of the crop of guys I would love to see us get. He's a 20 PPG guy who plays big time defense and can shoot threes. Stick him on this team somehow, and you have a championship caliber team IMO (with a healthy Robinson).

Murray would take this team up to the next level, and put us in contention for taking over the Eastern conference IMO. Rumors galore that the Knicks are wanting him. I love Hart, Grimes, Deuce, even Achiuwa, as the foundations of team 2, but Murray at the 2 spot would be insane and give us a great starting 5. Move DiVincenzo to Team 2 and have a starting lineup of Brunson, Murray, OG, Randle, and Mitch...with a backup of Hart, Deuce, DiVincenzo, Grimes, Precious, and Hartenstien. I can imagine seeing a package of Grimes, Fournier, and a quiver of first round picks to pull off such a trade. The Lakers are also all in on Murray. They don't have the assets the Knicks have, but Atlanta might prefer moving Murray to the west and keeping him out of their own division...who knows 

[DaveBrown74]

Murray would take this team up to the next level, and put us in contention for taking over the Eastern conference IMO. Rumors galore that the Knicks are wanting him. I love Hart, Grimes, Deuce, even Achiuwa, as the foundations of team 2, but Murray at the 2 spot would be insane and give us a great starting 5. Move DiVincenzo to Team 2 and have a starting lineup of Brunson, Murray, OG, Randle, and Mitch...with a backup of Hart, Deuce, DiVincenzo, Grimes, Precious, and Hartenstien. I can imagine seeing a package of Grimes, Fournier, and a quiver of first round picks to pull off such a trade. The Lakers are also all in on Murray. They don't have the assets the Knicks have, but Atlanta might prefer moving Murray to the west and keeping him out of their own division...who knows 

We definitely have more assets than the Lakers in terms of picks, plus we have some young players (such as Grimes, whom you mentioned) who have developmental value. In the case of Murray, I don't know how it would work cap-wise or if Randle would be part of the move. I totally understand the point we have already discussed on this board, which is that moving Randle as part of a deal to get Murray just plugs one hole while creating another. I'm actually not even sure how desirable Randle is to other teams with his contract.

Basically, if there is a way to get Murray on this team without moving any of our main starters, I'd be all-in on that. IMO such a move would take us from being a good team to a great team.

Brunson
Murray
OG
Randle
Robinson

Hart
DiVo
Hartenstein/Sims (whoever stays)
Achiuwa
Grimes/McBride (whoever stays)

To me that's a team that is capable of beating any NBA team in a series and would consistently be one of the top three seeds in the East for the next several years. I don't know if the above is possible, but if it is, I'd be ecstatic with that.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

We definitely have more assets than the Lakers in terms of picks, plus we have some young players (such as Grimes, whom you mentioned) who have developmental value. In the case of Murray, I don't know how it would work cap-wise or if Randle would be part of the move. I totally understand the point we have already discussed on this board, which is that moving Randle as part of a deal to get Murray just plugs one hole while creating another. I'm actually not even sure how desirable Randle is to other teams with his contract.

Basically, if there is a way to get Murray on this team without moving any of our main starters, I'd be all-in on that. IMO such a move would take us from being a good team to a great team.

Brunson
Murray
OG
Randle
Robinson

Hart
DiVo
Hartenstein/Sims (whoever stays)
Achiuwa
Grimes/McBride (whoever stays)

To me that's a team that is capable of beating any NBA team in a series and would consistently be one of the top three seeds in the East for the next several years. I don't know if the above is possible, but if it is, I'd be ecstatic with that.

I can't imagine the Knicks letting Randle go. On any given night, he can drop 45 points and dominate a game. And now that he's not the "only star" on the team, he's going to be getting less pressure. He has off nights, of course...which frustrates fans. But if they let him go, as you point out, we need a top-notch 4 to replace him...easier said than done

To me, the most vulnerable player on the team to get traded is Grimes. But he'd have to get packaged with another player and a fist full of picks. If they give up most of the draft capital and Grimes for Murray, they better know for sure that he's the missing piece to the puzzle because they won't draft picks to develop players on the second team

I think one of the biggest steals that the Knicks have gotten is flying under the radar...Hartenstein. Now that he's finally getting to play in a starting role, he has grown some big nads and is having the time of his life going up against the best big men and winning. It might even make Mitch a possible trade piece 

Steve Smith blew up the internet with his comment last night when he said, "I don't know, some dude named Hartenstein..." in a condescending tone (which is his nature). Fournier jumped all over Smith in defending Hartenstein as did a shltload of fans. Hartenstein was +35 and +26 in his last two games and is defending the paint with gusto and getting assists. He dropped 17 points last night, and if he was more offensive minded, he'd probably be a starter on most teams...and he's contract-friendly

If we can get Murray without depleting the team and our draft assets, I'd go berzerk

Suggested on another board:

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Good game last night. Knicks were blowing them out in the first half, then took their foot off the gas in the third and let the Wizards climb back in it...not to worry, Knicks went back to blowing them out 121-105. Hart and Hartenstein had good games. Hartenstein had 19 rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks, 2 assists and led the team with a +26. Randle dropped 39 pts. But the highlight of the night was Deuce slipping in out of nowhere in a forest of big men and stuffed a missed shot in their faces - Deuce is playing well, especially defensively

https://twitter.com/EverythinKnicks/status/1743794088191676852

This made me laugh:
https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1743862193387409836

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Knicks are creeping up the ladder in standings, now in 4th place after blowing out the Trail Blazers last night (118-84) with a suffocating defense like I've seldom seen. They've won 5 straight since acquiring OG and OG is the first player in NBA history to start his first 5 games with a new team with a cumulative-plus over 100 (+111). Very unselfish player...when asked how he does it, he simply says, "I look for the open man". He's not trying to be a one-man show, unless it's defense. He has made the Knicks more rounded and a better team...so far. Last night he chipped in 23 pts while hitting 4/6 from the 3-pt line

IHart (Hartenstein) led the team with (+31, tied with Randle) while grabbing 14 RBs, 3 assists, 3 steals, and a blocked shot. He has been on fire since becoming a starter and will command big bucks once he's a free agent. He'd be a starter on another team, so the Knicks should lock him up now. He's not only great on the boards and blocking shots, but he has the mindset of a point guard and like OG, always keeping track of who's open and possesses the savvy to make seemingly impossible passes

McBride is showing grit and hustle pouring in 16 pts off the bench las night, while knocking down 4/7 from behind the 3-pt line and getting a couple rebounds and a steal. He's showing the reason the Knicks extended him a couple weeks ago. He's taking the sting out of the loss of Quick. He hustles like his hair is on fire
 
Grimes chipped in 17 pts off the bench and is starting to adjust (and even like) his new role. He was 4/9 from the three and 3/3 at the free throw line. Some were worried he didn't want to be back on the 2nd team, but he's adjusted and doing just fine

I'm surprised at the lack of interest in the Knicks lately

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Quick test to see how well you know your Knicks

This man was an international basketball star and he has a son who plays for the Knicks. Do you know which one?

[Jolly Blue Giant]

No takers????

Here's another clue

[DaveBrown74]

No takers????

Here's another clue

Ahh... Hartenstein. Wow.