NFT - NY Knicks - 2023-2024

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Ahh... Hartenstein. Wow.

Yup, black father, white mother...you'd never know it other than the way he plays

[DaveBrown74]

Yup, black father, white mother...you'd never know it other than the way he plays

Interesting. I had no idea.

5-0 since the trade. Granted, some of the games have been against bad teams, but two were against very good teams. And the ones against bad teams have been utterly lopsided. I really like what I'm seeing. I certainly don't think we're championship caliber just yet, but, so far at least, this trade appears to have made us appreciably better. And the fact that we were going after this guy for a year now suggests they did their homework and foresaw how good of a fit he would be.

FWIW, I have a group of Knicks fan friends who are extremely into the NBA and are much more knowledgeable than I am, and they are actually against going after DeJounte Murray. They think he's a very good player, but they don't like the idea of unloading our assets for him. They think he'd help us, but wouldn't quite make us title material. They think the best move is to sit tight, maybe consider adding a role player type before the deadline, but basically hold out for a superstar who wants to move teams. And then pounce on that.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Interesting. I had no idea.

5-0 since the trade. Granted, some of the games have been against bad teams, but two were against very good teams. And the ones against bad teams have been utterly lopsided. I really like what I'm seeing. I certainly don't think we're championship caliber just yet, but, so far at least, this trade appears to have made us appreciably better. And the fact that we were going after this guy for a year now suggests they did their homework and foresaw how good of a fit he would be.

FWIW, I have a group of Knicks fan friends who are extremely into the NBA and are much more knowledgeable than I am, and they are actually against going after DeJounte Murray. They think he's a very good player, but they don't like the idea of unloading our assets for him. They think he'd help us, but wouldn't quite make us title material. They think the best move is to sit tight, maybe consider adding a role player type before the deadline, but basically hold out for a superstar who wants to move teams. And then pounce on that.

I tend to agree with your friends. They've got their starting five, and second team with Deuce/Malachi Flynn, Grimes, Hart, IHart, Jericho, and Precious Achiuwa...we're not in bad shape at all. I suppose if they could slip in a All-Pro shooting guard, you could move Divincenzo to second team and Grimes rotate with Hart and Divvy 

And we have Obi's younger brother (I think he's more of a 3 than a 4) who looks pretty good as well as international star point guard, Rokas Jokubaitis who was just voted by GMs/HCs as "Best International Player", sitting in the wings. Standing pat is not a bad strategy

[DaveBrown74]

I tend to agree with your friends. They've got their starting five, and second team with Deuce/Malachi Flynn, Grimes, Hart, IHart, Jericho, and Precious Achiuwa...we're not in bad shape at all. I suppose if they could slip in a All-Pro shooting guard, you could move Divincenzo to second team and Grimes rotate with Hart and Divvy 

And we have Obi's younger brother (I think he's more of a 3 than a 4) who looks pretty good as well as international star point guard, Rokas Jokubaitis who was just voted by GMs/HCs as "Best International Player", sitting in the wings. Standing pat is not a bad strategy

There is definitely something to be said for it if the thinking is that Murray, while very good, won't quite put us over the top. Because if that's the case, once you acquire him, then what? We'd be surely maxed out cap-wise, and we'd have little in the way of assets at that point, and then any draft pick we do have for ourselves is going to be in the 20th to 25th overall type range, which doesn't get you a difference-maker unless you get incredibly lucky, which just doesn't happen often. I do understand the logic.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

There is definitely something to be said for it if the thinking is that Murray, while very good, won't quite put us over the top. Because if that's the case, once you acquire him, then what? We'd be surely maxed out cap-wise, and we'd have little in the way of assets at that point, and then any draft pick we do have for ourselves is going to be in the 20th to 25th overall type range, which doesn't get you a difference-maker unless you get incredibly lucky, which just doesn't happen often. I do understand the logic.

Let's just hope and pray that they are smart enough to run the team the exact opposite way of how it was run for the quarter-century. Build slowly and develop. Keep and re-sign your best players. Be patient!

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Another pic...dad and son. Isaiah and Florian Hartenstein

[Philosophers]

Given their success since this last trade, I think they sit pat and let them coalesce as they look good.

[DaveBrown74]

At Mavs tonight. Nice break to catch them without Luca.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

At Mavs tonight. Nice break to catch them without Luca.

On my schedule. It sucks that it's Thursday night because all the shows I watch (Reacher 2, Monarch: Legacy of Monsters, etc.) drop their next episode on Thursdays. I'll have to watch them tomorrow I guess

[nb587]

At Mavs tonight. Nice break to catch them without Luca.

I was wondering why the Knicks were favored. 

I'm of the opinion that they might be able to get Murray without giving up everything.  I think Fournier's expiring contract has value.  The flip side is that the unprotected picks might not have too much value and might revert to 2nd round picks.  But, to Murray. I think its a pipe dream to expect Towns or some other star to come. The addition of OG elevated them from being probable play in team to a definite top 6. Adding Murray, based on what I've read, elevates them to probably below the Celtics, on a par with the Bucks and probably ahead of the 76ers.  That presumes decent health and not a bad outcome this year. And, they might get lucky in the playoffs

[Jolly Blue Giant]

A trade worth making IMO

We gained with OG, but lost a little giving up IQ

IQ came in second for "Sixth Man of the Year", and he lost to Malcolm Brogdon, a combo 1 and 2, who averaged 15 pts, 3.4 rebounds, and 5.2 assists per game last season coming off the bench, and plays hard defense (winning "Defensive Player of the Year" in 2016. He's 6'4" and 31 years old and plays for the Trail Blazers who suck and are ready to blow up the team, so every player is available. Given his age, and the fact that he's not a starter, he shouldn't be that hard to get. Picking him up wouldn't have the same impact as when we got Hart or OG, but it would replace the spark that IQ used to give us off the bench...and as pointed out, he beat out IQ as 6th man. It's not the "missing piece", but it's an upgrade without killing the team's future



He wouldn't cost a king's ransom. Trailblazers want youth and/or draft picks. Regardless, he would fill in nicely as first man off the bench to replace Brunson or Divvy

[DaveBrown74]

Funny you mention Brogdon, JBG. Those same friends of mine I mentioned who didn't love the Murray trade idea mentioned that it would be smart to make a play for someone like Brogdon or Jordan Clarkson. Both are the types of players who can more or less fill Quickley's role but aren't going to eat into our assets too much. I would feel a lot better about sitting pat and waiting for a major star if we grabbed someone like one of these guys for the near term. Right now it feels like we need another scorer.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Funny you mention Brogdon, JBG. Those same friends of mine I mentioned who didn't love the Murray trade idea mentioned that it would be smart to make a play for someone like Brogdon or Jordan Clarkson. Both are the types of players who can more or less fill Quickley's role but aren't going to eat into our assets too much. I would feel a lot better about sitting pat and waiting for a major star if we grabbed someone like one of these guys for the near term. Right now it feels like we need another scorer.

Your friends sound like intelligent men...or as my son used to say, "pretty fart smellers"...LOL

I too, don't want to mortgage the farm and bring in a big name superstar who might radically change the chemistry, while depleting our draft stock and/or young assets. I also wonder if Thibs is ever going to call up Rokas Jokubaitas to see what we got in the Euroleague star, voted "Best International Player" by coaches...an honor given to the likes of Luka Dončić and Danilo Gallinari...which is pretty good company. Not a huge scorer, but extremely smart and gets the most out of teammates. He brings an insane amount of energy when on the floor as did IQ, maybe even more

I think Randle should be getting some love by the fans this year. He's been nothing short of superstar status. Not having those off days like last year when he still was voted an All Star

[DaveBrown74]

Your friends sound like intelligent men...or as my son used to say, "pretty fart smellers"...LOL

I too, don't want to mortgage the farm and bring in a big name superstar who might radically change the chemistry, while depleting our draft stock and/or young assets. I also wonder if Thibs is ever going to call up Rokas Jokubaitas to see what we got in the Euroleague star, voted "Best International Player" by coaches...an honor given to the likes of Luka Dončić and Danilo Gallinari...which is pretty good company. Not a huge scorer, but extremely smart and gets the most out of teammates. He brings an insane amount of energy when on the floor as did IQ, maybe even more

I think Randle should be getting some love by the fans this year. He's been nothing short of superstar status. Not having those off days like last year when he still was voted an All Star

If the right opportunity (for a star who is a fit) doesn't come along this year, I am fine going after a Brogdon type and going into the playoffs with that and seeing how we do. I don't think we are championship caliber yet, but I think we're a good solid playoff team. I could see a guy like OG being a huge help in the postseason. I'd be curious to see how far we could get.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I've read three articles this morning and they all say the same thing..."Knicks are actively dangling Grimes" and looking for a "backup guard"

My hunch is that Grimes will be gone and there will be a trade soon...hopefully we don't give up a bunch of our draft assets to pull it off. Grimes is good enough to be a starter on some teams IMO

edited for more info:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMuse/status/1747295732099367131

Katz writes for the Athletic...a summary of what he wrote:

 Its clear that along with Fournier - Grimes is the biggest player piece the Knicks could move and Fournier is also a valuable piece with his expiring contract. According to him (Katz), here are the players the Knicks have interest in: "Some players who fit that description include (in no particular order): the Portland Trail Blazers' Malcolm Brogdon, the Utah Jazz's Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton, the Charlotte Hornets' Terry Rozier, the Indiana Pacers' Bruce Brown and T.J. McConnell, the Atlanta Hawks' Bogdan Bogdanović, the Cleveland Cavaliers' Caris LeVert and the Dallas Mavericks' Tim Hardaway Jr."

Personally, I hope they get Brogdon