Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on October 03, 2023, 03:30:11 PMYou addressed a few different things in your post.

When people say "excuses for Jones" it's not to ignore the fact that there are a myriad of issues with this team. Just about every person on this site readily acknowledges that. The "excuses" part comes in only when discussing Jones.

- His supporting cast isn't NFL-caliber
- He doesn't have time to throw
- He doesn't have a #1 receiver
- His receivers don't get open
- He's running for his life

But here's the thing: he has had games where all of those listed above were true and present and yet he still played well in spite of those hindrances. The problem is he only has a handful of those games where he overcomes the limitations.

Jones has physical talent. He can buy time with his legs. One of the big differences between Jones and Mahomes is that Mahomes uses his legs to buy time to find an open receiver, usually way down field. Jones buys time to find a short outlet. We wouldn't be a playoff team with Mahomes in this situation, but we also wouldn't have a question mark at the QB position.

You do make a lot of good points and I actually agree with a lot of them.

We are just bad all over and it's very tough to watch.

Quote from: T200 on October 03, 2023, 01:26:30 PMTwo out of 16 quarters. Two.

Where was he last night? Where was Dab/Ka with the playcalling? Where was the max protect? Where were the downfield shots?

Yes, I know about the offensive line injuries. Seattle had more offensive starters out than we did.

We have 3 games of historically bad blocking.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 03, 2023, 03:53:21 PMWe have 3 games of historically bad blocking.

I know. I watched all of it. Had a co-worker ask me what time I turned off the game. I told him I'm a masochist - had to watch it all.   

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 03, 2023, 03:53:21 PMWe have 3 games of historically bad blocking.

We have had 3 games of historically bad offensive play all around not just the offensive line.

 I am many pages late to this discussion and if this was already mentioned, sorry.

I know Shoen has been discussed, but as I said after last week's game, there has to be a better OL than what we currently are putting on the field, on some team's practice squads. Why can a team like the Seahawks be down two starting tackles and their QB has plenty of time to throw? Do they have exceptional back-ups? We already know what we have as starters and our back-ups are grocery baggers in a Giant's uniform. There have to be better players being hidden on other teams' practice squads and Shoen should be looking into this seriously. What we have is a disaster and no amount of shuffling will change it.

Second, have we changed our scouts? I know this was a big topic under Gettleman, but are we retaining the same scouting squad? If so, they need to go too. We never seem to draft that one guy who will turn a team around. PLUS, as was said on the game last night, the Giants have invested more top draft picks than any other NFL team and we still can't get it right. Sorry, but that goes to our scouting system. And, can we now say Neal is a bust before he gets to his third year?

And, as has also been said, injuries happen, but if the Giants are getting injured at a more rapid pace they certainly have to look at strength and conditioning. Whatever we are doing, we are doing wrong. Last couple of years, we complained about the turf causing injuries, we changed the turf and the injuries still keep piling up. Sorry, we have to look at the conditioning our team is getting and how it is not doing what it is intended to do.

Quote from: T200 on October 03, 2023, 03:20:52 PMNone of us knows what his thinking is like. However, there is enough film of him to understand and see his tendencies. He has become predictable.

When guys with 4 games experience in the NFL are calling you predictable for locking onto your first read. I don't think you can be called "dependable" any longer.

The book on Jones is well and truly out.

I know Giamts fans like to blame everything on the OL and for some reason are always against drafting a QB but ;lets be real. If the Giants get the #1 pick and have the chance to draft Caleb Williams, you do it without a question. It be malpractice to not select a QB there. QB is the most important position in the sport and can turn a franchise around.  Do you think the Bengals regret drafting Burrow since they "didn't build a team around him yet"?  If we get the 6th pick and a OL is available, take him. If we get the #1 pick, take the QB. Simple as that. 

QB won't matter if the can't protect. 11 sacks, pressured most by nearly double then next qb, less time to throw, and worst rated oline and wr groups.

Show me any qb that can be successful with that garbage & no support in the play calling.

But sure, get another qb to ruin, as they did for Eli for nearly 6 years and now DJ another 5. Kudos on fixing that line after 10 years, job well done.

There will always be some fans complaining about a qb no matter what. I lived and survived bad qbs like Kannel, Brown and Graham. I gave them a little time to grow/learn/improve. Once I saw they were the problem I wanted them out.

Didn't see it with Eli, when many fans wanted him gone & same with DJ. We go as far as the oline takes us.

As was stated some of those sacks were on Jones

Quote from: Trench on October 04, 2023, 03:09:01 AMAs was stated some of those sacks were on Jones

Yep.

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1709323680130494468?s=46&t=ztHQkdrs2C-vkXmhNZla-g

Quote from: DragonSoul on October 04, 2023, 01:08:42 AMQB won't matter if the can't protect. 11 sacks, pressured most by nearly double then next qb, less time to throw, and worst rated oline and wr groups.

Show me any qb that can be successful with that garbage & no support in the play calling.

But sure, get another qb to ruin, as they did for Eli for nearly 6 years and now DJ another 5. Kudos on fixing that line after 10 years, job well done.

There will always be some fans complaining about a qb no matter what. I lived and survived bad qbs like Kannel, Brown and Graham. I gave them a little time to grow/learn/improve. Once I saw they were the problem I wanted them out.

Didn't see it with Eli, when many fans wanted him gone & same with DJ. We go as far as the oline takes us.

Hate to say it Jones is only a small step above Brown, Kent and Kannel.  He's not as good as Kerry Collins.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 04, 2023, 06:47:35 AMHate to say it Jones is only a small step above Brown, Kent and Kannel.  He's not as good as Kerry Collins.

They actually had teams around them. & while I was a fan and liked KC after those three previous to him. He laid the biggest egg in the SB!

Quote from: DragonSoul on October 04, 2023, 10:38:56 AMThey actually had teams around them. & while I was a fan and liked KC after those three previous to him. He laid the biggest egg in the SB!

He at least got to a Super Bowl and could read a defense with no fear of going downfield instead of always looking for his check down or underneath route.

I liked Collins. We needed a QB badly and I wasn't sure about him when they signed him, but overall he did a very solid job for us at a time when we really needed someone to step up at the position.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 04, 2023, 10:45:57 AMI liked Collins. We needed a QB badly and I wasn't sure about him when they signed him, but overall he did a very solid job for us at a time when we really needed someone to step up at the position.

Don't laugh at me, but I thought Baker or even Rodgers could have been brought in to do something similar this year.  I still somewhat feel that way, nvmd the Achilles, but this team does have myriad issues. I just think QB is the most glaring.