This is his quote from today.
"We have a playoff team, and that's what we want to do, and that's our focus. We're going to get there." — Jalin Hyatt
With Nabers, Robinson, and Hyatt at WR.
Burns, Lawrence, and Thibodeaux on the D line.
Do you agree with his statement? or not really?
Just curious?
I'll tell you my thoughts later.
Link down below, quote at the bottom of the page.
LINK (https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5546883/2024/06/06/new-york-giants-practice-malik-nabers-daniel-jones/)
It's great that he's enthusiastic, but no, I don't.
The Giants are not there yet. They have added some exciting new players, but they also lost some very good ones. There are still major question marks on this team at very important positions, they lack depth, and they cannot seem to stay healthy (an annual occurrence).
They were one of the worst teams in the league last year. I think it's pretty unlikely that they turn that completely around in a single season.
It depends on D Jones
We went to the playoffs 2 years ago.so why not again
Also if we.switch our QB with other QBs would you think we would
We are
If DJ plays better and the OL plays much better then yes.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 06, 2024, 10:50:26 PMIt's great that he's enthusiastic, but no, I don't.
The Giants are not there yet. They have added some exciting new players, but they also lost some very good ones. There are still major question marks on this team at very important positions, they lack depth, and they cannot seem to stay healthy (an annual occurrence).
They were one of the worst teams in the league last year. I think it's pretty unlikely that they turn that completely around in a single season.
Jeff,
I think the odds say your view is likely correct. I will say, though, that I consider a playoff team as this year's ceiling (similar to Daboll's first season). If many of the question marks end up positive there is talent on this team. Take Hyatt; if he reaches the potential many thought he had when he was drafted by the Giants in the third round, that would be a devastating duo when teamed with Nabers.
Burns and Thibs have the potential to be equally devastating as the starting edge rushers. There are potentially enough pieces for the Giants' secondary to be solid as well. The same can be said of the RB and TE rooms.
I think much of the season may hinge on the O-line and how effective it can be with the infusion of veterans and led by new coaches.
That leaves the major wild card at QB, but we have seen Jones lead this team to the playoffs before, so I don't think it's impossible that he could do it again (or perhaps Lock lives up to his talent levels)
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 07, 2024, 07:14:57 AMJeff,
I think the odds say your view is likely correct. I will say, though, that I consider a playoff team as this year's ceiling (similar to Daboll's first season). If many of the question marks end up positive there is talent on this team. Take Hyatt; if he reaches the potential many thought he had when he was drafted by the Giants in the third round, that would be a devastating duo when teamed with Nabers.
Burns and Thibs have the potential to be equally devastating as the starting edge rushers. There are potentially enough pieces for the Giants' secondary to be solid as well. The same can be said of the RB and TE rooms.
I think much of the season may hinge on the O-line and how effective it can be with the infusion of veterans and led by new coaches.
That leaves the major wild card at QB, but we have seen Jones lead this team to the playoffs before, so I don't think it's impossible that he could do it again (or perhaps Lock lives up to his talent levels)
So here are my thoughts.
I pretty much agree with Mighty here.
I believe Nabers will emerge as an elite WR, and the strength of the offense will be the three WR's who will carry the team offensively.
Defensively, Thibodeaux, Lawrence, and Burns form an elite defensive line, and they are the strength of the defense.
LB Okereke is solid, and the DB's led by Banks, may surprise us and become an excellent secondary.
I personally am agreeing with Hyatt here.
I believe the Giants will make the playoffs this year.
I'm seeing a bounce back year for Daniel Jones, mainly because he has an unbelievable talent in Nabers, combined with Hyatt emerging, and Robinson staying healthy, O line is key though.
I also believe they take it to the Eagles this year, and at least beat them one time.
I'm not so sure they will have the same success against the Cowboys just yet though, but time will tell.
I see them winning nine to ten games and squeaking in as a wild card team.
And once there in, anything can happen.
Everyone's a playoff team in June. Lets see some wins.
First of all, I like this kid. He's got a nice personality, he's positive and he believes in himself and the team. I do believe he will have a breakout year and this Receiver Corp has the potential to be among the best in the League.
I also believe we will see significant improvement in the Oline play, whether Evan Neal improves or if he is replaced.
I have always maintained that Jones can be a very good Regular season QB and he can put up solid stats that are better than Eli did. He can get them to the playoffs. I just haven't seen that specialness that's required to beat the better teams in the league. He has a lot to prove after 5 seasons and so does Drew Lock. Can they win in crunch time? Remains to be seen.
The Secondary is an if. So is the interior D-Line, except for Lawrence. It's a new system and although I see more interceptions, there may be some confusion in the short to intermediate coverage.
I do think they can secure a wildcard spot. We have to see how they play and the momentum they have at the end of the season, to determine how far they can go.
I would hope players wouldn't say anything different at this point.
Quote from: Ed Vette on June 07, 2024, 09:09:37 AMFirst of all, I like this kid. He's got a nice personality, he's positive and he believes in himself and the team. I do believe he will have a breakout year and this Receiver Corp has the potential to be among the best in the League.
I also believe we will see significant improvement in the Oline play, whether Evan Neal improves or if he is replaced.
I have always maintained that Jones can be a very good Regular season QB and he can put up solid stats that are better than Eli did. He can get them to the playoffs. I just haven't seen that specialness that's required to beat the better teams in the league. He has a lot to prove after 5 seasons and so does Drew Lock. Can they win in crunch time? Remains to be seen.
The Secondary is an if. So is the interior D-Line, except for Lawrence. It's a new system and although I see more interceptions, there may be some confusion in the short to intermediate coverage.
I do think they can secure a wildcard spot. We have to see how they play and the momentum they have at the end of the season, to determine how far they can go.
Ed,
I pretty much agree with everything you said here, nicely done.
They do have a playoff TEAM but they don't have a playoff QB. Unless of course they happen to play an historically terrible defense in the playoffs again which seems unlikely. But they are close. Granted that last piece of the puzzle is probably the hardest to find but with that piece I do think they are a playoff caliber team overall. Without that piece they are probably not.
There's a difference between making the playoffs and being considered a "playoff team." While it's possible for the Giants to accomplish the former, they're not close to the latter. Considering the current playoff format, 14 of 32 (44%) teams make the playoffs; by definition, slightly above average teams have a chance to compete for a championship. In today's NFL, a very average team could make the playoffs if they play in a weak division and get a few lucky breaks, similar to our 2022 Giants. However, did anyone believe that team had a chance to compete with the actual playoff teams (e.g. Phili, KC, Buff, etc)? In 2023, the same was true for the Bucs, Browns, Texan, and Steelers; each team made the playoffs, but lacked the firepower to actually beat the NFL elites.
The same paradigm exist today; while the Giants have improved their overall talent, they still lack the firepower to compete with NFL's perennial playoff teams. They're getting closer; however, a few key components still need to be upgraded. I like the direction we're going though!
Quote from: kingm56 on June 07, 2024, 11:49:26 AMThere's a difference between making the playoffs and being considered a "playoff team." While it's possible for the Giants to accomplish the former, they're not close to the latter. Considering the current playoff format, 14 of 32 (44%) teams make the playoffs; by definition, slightly above average teams have a chance to compete for a championship. In today's NFL, a very average team could make the playoffs if they play in a weak division and get a few lucky breaks, similar to our 2022 Giants. However, did anyone believe that team had a chance to compete with the actual playoff teams (e.g. Phili, KC, Buff, etc)? In 2023, the same was true for the Bucs, Browns, Texan, and Steelers; each team made the playoffs, but lacked the firepower to actually beat the NFL elites.
The same paradigm exist today; while the Giants have improved their overall talent, they still lack the firepower to compete with NFL's perennial playoff teams. They're getting closer; however, a few key components still need to be upgraded. I like the direction we're going though!
I still think we are a year and a half out from truly being competitive weekly with anyone.
It will all come down to the OL, IMO. Until we see it on the field they certainly don't have a play-off quality OL. Heck, until we see it on the field they don't even have an NFL quality OL.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 07, 2024, 01:02:51 PMIt will all come down to the OL, IMO. Until we see it on the field they certainly don't have a play-off quality OL. Heck, until we see it on the field they don't even have an NFL quality OL.
This is definitely part of the equation, i.e. "FIX the damn O-Line!!!"
The second part of the equation, which hasn't even been whispered yet, is what will be on their metric for "Lost Man-Games due to Injury?" As if we haven't been beaten into the fetal position over this one, have the Giants made enough changes to mitigate risk of injury to their players? Granted, there are many variables out there which contribute to injury. How will it play out this season?
A possible third part of the equation is they have tied for the sixth most difficult schedule in the league. Whether or not that means anything, you be the judge. But I'm throwing it out there, just the same.
Fourth, and what I consider one of the most significant parts of the equation, is how do they plan to beat the Cowboys and Eagles this season? If you cannot beat the Divisional rivals ahead of you, then you have no right to be mouthing off about playoffs. Beat those guys first!!!
Peace!
I love the enthusiasm of Hyatt, but he has prove he can run the route tree first. I don't expect them to be as inept on offense, but being in the playoff mix will take health and good fortune.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 07, 2024, 07:47:09 AMSo here are my thoughts.
I pretty much agree with Mighty here.
I believe Nabers will emerge as an elite WR, and the strength of the offense will be the three WR's who will carry the team offensively.
Defensively, Thibodeaux, Lawrence, and Burns form an elite defensive line, and they are the strength of the defense.
LB Okereke is solid, and the DB's led by Banks, may surprise us and become an excellent secondary.
I personally am agreeing with Hyatt here.
I believe the Giants will make the playoffs this year.
I'm seeing a bounce back year for Daniel Jones, mainly because he has an unbelievable talent in Nabers, combined with Hyatt emerging, and Robinson staying healthy, O line is key though.
I also believe they take it to the Eagles this year, and at least beat them one time.
I'm not so sure they will have the same success against the Cowboys just yet though, but time will tell.
I see them winning nine to ten games and squeaking in as a wild card team.
And once there in, anything can happen.
Agree with most of this except Okereke. He is a lot more than solid. He is on the verge of All-Pro!
Every team is a playoff team in June.
Quote from: Gmo11 on June 07, 2024, 10:23:42 AMThey do have a playoff TEAM but they don't have a playoff QB. Unless of course they happen to play an historically terrible defense in the playoffs again which seems unlikely. But they are close. Granted that last piece of the puzzle is probably the hardest to find but with that piece I do think they are a playoff caliber team overall. Without that piece they are probably not.
Hi GMO,
I was curious, may I ask why do you say they don't have a playoff QB?
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 07, 2024, 10:17:28 PMHi GMO,
I was curious, may I ask why do you say they don't have a playoff QB?
I suspect it has to do with his demonstrated play/output over 60 games.
Quote from: kingm56 on June 07, 2024, 11:53:12 PMIsn't it obvious?
Hi
Sadly, that's not how you answer a question.
And I was asking Gmo not you.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 06, 2024, 10:50:26 PMIt's great that he's enthusiastic, but no, I don't.
The Giants are not there yet. They have added some exciting new players, but they also lost some very good ones. There are still major question marks on this team at very important positions, they lack depth, and they cannot seem to stay healthy (an annual occurrence).
They were one of the worst teams in the league last year. I think it's pretty unlikely that they turn that completely around in a single season.
Why is that Dave? They were a playoff team 2 years ago when they turned everything around from the previous year
then last year they turned everything around and fell on their face
Who's to say they cannot turn everything around for the 3rd year in a row and go playoffs again?
Certainly on paper this is the best roster we have had since Ben MacAdoo's 11 win season
Maybe the best since our last SB win
We are consistently unpredictable.....thats the only constancy
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 07, 2024, 10:17:28 PMHi GMO,
I was curious, may I ask why do you say they don't have a playoff QB?
He says that because a majority of the fan base has come to the realization that Jones isn't a top 15 Qb and that 2022 was largely a mirage of good defense with a potent run game, and luck with an easy schedule.
Yes Jones beat a bad Vikings team, but then got smashed the following week vs an actual playoff worthy team.
Quote from: BluesCruz on June 08, 2024, 09:03:15 AMWhy is that Dave?
I feel I explained my answer pretty clearly and reasonably.
Look - I get that in June nobody wants to think anything other than the most positive thoughts, and that is totally fine. February-April is silly season, and June-August is propaganda season. I'm not questioning anyone's answers who responded that they think we are a playoff team. Everyone is entitled to his opinion.
Obviously if the Giants surprise and end up being good, I'll be delighted. The question was do I think they're a playoff team, and my answer was no, not yet. That is not a hard viewpoint to defend. Maybe we weren't watching the same team last year.
Quote from: BluesCruz on June 08, 2024, 09:03:15 AMWe are consistently unpredictable.....theats the only constancy
I am going to have to strongly disagree with you on this point. We have been consistently and predictably lousy for a full decade now. The team has been grossly mismanaged for the most part. Two so-so years out of 10 is not good.
We have drafted poorly, we have handed out ridiculously bad, back-breaking free agent contracts, our coaching has been poor for the most part, and we (the fans, the front office, the coaches, and ownership) have been guilty of wildly overrating our own talent. 2022 and 2016 were outlier years that were more mirage than anything else. This is evidenced by what we put on the field immediately following each of those years.
That is not being "consistently unpredictable." Not remotely.
ok lately though we are a playoff team sporadically
2 yrs ago and MacAdoo's 11 win season
I just have a hunch this team will exceed expecations
Talent-wise we are becoming a much better team. Jones or no Jones
I think all the telegraphed play calling to favor Barkley hurt us badly.
That's taken care of
My only real worry is Evan Neal. Unless he completely is re-born as a player, he is a huge hole on our right side
For eons we have had poor LBer play- that seems fixed. The D line is good possibly very good
Our pass rush should be terrific
If they give Jones time to set his feet he is a workable solution
I'm looking at a 9-11 win season
Let me underscore what was already said. This team can get to the playoffs but this is not a playoff team. No way they win the division unless the other three starting QB's go IR.
Quote from: BluesCruz on June 08, 2024, 09:34:14 AMok lately though we are a playoff team sporadically
2 yrs ago and MacAdoo's 11 win season
I just have a hunch this team will exceed expecations
Talent-wise we are becoming a much better team. Jones or no Jones
I think all the telegraphed play calling to favor Barkley hurt us badly.
That's taken care of
My only real worry is Evan Neal. Unless he completely is re-born as a player, he is a huge hole on our right side
For eons we have had poor LBer play- that seems fixed. The D line is good possibly very good
Our pass rush should be terrific
If they give Jones time to set his feet he is a workable solution
I'm looking at a 9-11 win season
And that's totally fine. You're more than entitled to feel that way. And I'd be delighted if you end up being right.
Just to be clear though, and others have made this point:
A "playoff team" is not the same thing as a mediocre team could maybe sneak into a six or seven seed if everything breaks their way, they face opposing backup QBs or injury-riddled defenses, they frequently catch teams in off weeks, and the ball generally bounces their way. Almost any NFL team barring maybe five or six out of 32 each year can potentially be the latter. Only four, five, or maybe six in each conference each year are legitimately the former.
So can we be the latter? Sure, maybe, as can most teams. Are we the former? In my opinion, no we are not. Hopefully we will be at some point in the not too far away future, but we are not yet. We clearly weren't last year, and IMO we weren't in 2022 either. And we haven't been in any other season since about 2012. I am not happy about it, but that is the cold hard truth.
Quote from: Ed Vette on June 08, 2024, 10:05:06 AMLet me underscore what was already said. This team can get to the playoffs but this is not a playoff team. No way they win the division unless the other three starting QB's go IR.
But Ed, the Giants couldn't beat the Cowboys EVEN WHEN the backup was playing, and that was in the 2022 season.
Until they prove they can best Dallas and Philly, as I stated above, it should be sacrilege, as much as it is to say Joe P!$&%(!^ on this board, to even write down Giants and winning the division. They have to prove they've closed the gap from 0-40 and 17-49 and that's a tall mountain to climb, especially on Thanksgiving.
We're essentially on the same page; however, I'm still not convinced they go in if all the QBs in the division get sacked all at once.
O-Line, injuries and tough schedule are all factors that will impact them on the journey before their NFC East foes even have a say on the matter. Coming back from last year's challenging affair, if they don't get off to the start they hoped for, is Hyatt going to lose faith, drop his intensity, his desire? I'm more concerned about that for him, and his teammates than anything else.
Peace!
I would say if this defense becomes lights out then we will make the playoffs
this whole discussion is like a bunch of hens cackling
we have no idea how good the Giants or any division team is at this point.....none
all 4 could win the division or come in last. I have a feeling Dallas and Philly are waning.
that's the long and short of it
I like the roster so far. I like we took it to Philly last year, and this time its Dallas turn to burn.
Lets hope everything breaks our way and pride in this team is restored. Hopefully for years to come
Great discussion...but I think all Hyatt meant by "playoff team" was that "we are going to get there". Wild card would suffice for me.
Optimistic, not delusional or trying to insinuate, by saying "playoff team", that we are a contender.
I like this kid's attitude.
O-line + Daniel Jones permitting...I believe him.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 08, 2024, 11:12:36 AMAnd that's totally fine. You're more than entitled to feel that way. And I'd be delighted if you end up being right.
Just to be clear though, and others have made this point:
A "playoff team" is not the same thing as a mediocre team could maybe sneak into a six or seven seed if everything breaks their way, they face opposing backup QBs or injury-riddled defenses, they frequently catch teams in off weeks, and the ball generally bounces their way. Almost any NFL team barring maybe five or six out of 32 each year can potentially be the latter. Only four, five, or maybe six in each conference each year are legitimately the former.
So can we be the latter? Sure, maybe, as can most teams. Are we the former? In my opinion, no we are not. Hopefully we will be at some point in the not too far away future, but we are not yet. We clearly weren't last year, and IMO we weren't in 2022 either. And we haven't been in any other season since about 2012. I am not happy about it, but that is the cold hard truth.
By this standard they weren't a playoff team in 2011. And yet they WERE a Superbowl champion team.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 08, 2024, 01:46:46 PMBy this standard they weren't a playoff team in 2011. And yet they WERE a Superbowl champion team.
Yes lets be a totally under-rated SB Champion this year
Be the underdog in every game. I'd like that
Its always better to overachieve than the opposite
KC fans must be very bored at this point
Having said that Jones needs to let it fly. We have the WRs now to make him shine but he has to realize that. If not he needs to take a seat
Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 08, 2024, 01:46:46 PMBy this standard they weren't a playoff team in 2011. And yet they WERE a Superbowl champion team.
The 2011 Giants had a proven veteran QB who had a ring (plus a SB MVP) and a couple of Pro Bowl appearances including that year, which was his best year ever. Not really an apples to apples comparison. They also had a proven good line and some established studs on D. Their 9-7 regular season record was a disappointing underperformance that year.
I admire his confidence.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 08, 2024, 09:12:40 AMHe says that because a majority of the fan base has come to the realization that Jones isn't a top 15 Qb and that 2022 was largely a mirage of good defense with a potent run game, and luck with an easy schedule.
Yes Jones beat a bad Vikings team, but then got smashed the following week vs an actual playoff worthy team.
Your entitled to your opinion, but 2022 wasn't as easy as you may think.
In 2022 Daniel Jones and the Giants beat:
A) Jaguars with QB Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville 23-17
B) Ravens with QB Lamar Jackson 24-20
C) Packers with QB Aaron Rodgers 27-22
D) Panthers with QB Baker Mayfield 19-16
E) Vikings with QB Kirk Cousins 31-24 (Playoff win)
Four out of five of those QB's in 2022 were top fifteen, and Daniel Jones and the Giants beat them, all of them.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 08, 2024, 09:52:43 PMYour entitled to your opinion, but 2022 wasn't as easy as you may think.
In 2022 Daniel Jones and the Giants beat:
A) Jaguars with QB Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville 23-17
B) Ravens with QB Lamar Jackson 24-20
C) Packers with QB Aaron Rodgers 27-22
D) Panthers with QB Baker Mayfield 19-16
E) Vikings with QB Kirk Cousins 31-24 (Playoff win)
Four out of five of those QB's in 2022 were top fifteen, and Daniel Jones and the Giants beat them, all of them.
A) Jones didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes of that game even when we were behind so not sure I'd use that as an example of something Jones did.
B) The difference played exceptional causing Jackson to make a mistake which won us that game. Specifically Thibs and Love. Jones has 173 yards, it was very much a running and defensive game.
C) Again came down to the defense getting multiple stops. Jones didn't go out and win it as much as the defense held GB off at the end.
D) The panthers went 7-10 in 2022 and Jones went for 176 in the game so I'm not sure why it is on the list but ok.
E) The Vikings were historically bad on defense, and Jones did play well. That's the problem though, you can't judge an entire season on 1 game and beating the worst defense in the league isn't the accolade you think it is.
The Giants had a cupcake schedule and as a result lost to every single playoff worthy team that year. Seattle, Detroit, Dallas, Philadelphia etc. It's ok if you think Jones' 170 yards a game passing was the winning factor, but for most it was the defense and running game.
For us to win this year and be in the playoffs Jones will have to actually throw down field, something he's refused to do in the past several seasons. You cant blame that on coaching or the line as Devito doubled him in downfield throws, and Tyrod tripled him in downfield throws. Jones actually threw deep more on average in 2023 than he did in 2022 which is scary to think about but it has to change.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 09, 2024, 02:37:01 PMA) Jones didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes of that game even when we were behind so not sure I'd use that as an example of something Jones did.
B) The difference played exceptional causing Jackson to make a mistake which won us that game. Specifically Thibs and Love. Jones has 173 yards, it was very much a running and defensive game.
C) Again came down to the defense getting multiple stops. Jones didn't go out and win it as much as the defense held GB off at the end.
D) The panthers went 7-10 in 2022 and Jones went for 176 in the game so I'm not sure why it is on the list but ok.
E) The Vikings were historically bad on defense, and Jones did play well. That's the problem though, you can't judge an entire season on 1 game and beating the worst defense in the league isn't the accolade you think it is.
The Giants had a cupcake schedule and as a result lost to every single playoff worthy team that year. Seattle, Detroit, Dallas, Philadelphia etc. It's ok if you think Jones' 170 yards a game passing was the winning factor, but for most it was the defense and running game.
For us to win this year and be in the playoffs Jones will have to actually throw down field, something he's refused to do in the past several seasons. You cant blame that on coaching or the line as Devito doubled him in downfield throws, and Tyrod tripled him in downfield throws. Jones actually threw deep more on average in 2023 than he did in 2022 which is scary to think about but
it has to change.
Good post Jess.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 09, 2024, 02:37:01 PMA) Jones didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes of that game even when we were behind so not sure I'd use that as an example of something Jones did.
B) The difference played exceptional causing Jackson to make a mistake which won us that game. Specifically Thibs and Love. Jones has 173 yards, it was very much a running and defensive game.
C) Again came down to the defense getting multiple stops. Jones didn't go out and win it as much as the defense held GB off at the end.
D) The panthers went 7-10 in 2022 and Jones went for 176 in the game so I'm not sure why it is on the list but ok.
E) The Vikings were historically bad on defense, and Jones did play well. That's the problem though, you can't judge an entire season on 1 game and beating the worst defense in the league isn't the accolade you think it is.
The Giants had a cupcake schedule and as a result lost to every single playoff worthy team that year. Seattle, Detroit, Dallas, Philadelphia etc. It's ok if you think Jones' 170 yards a game passing was the winning factor, but for most it was the defense and running game.
For us to win this year and be in the playoffs Jones will have to actually throw down field, something he's refused to do in the past several seasons. You cant blame that on coaching or the line as Devito doubled him in downfield throws, and Tyrod tripled him in downfield throws. Jones actually threw deep more on average in 2023 than he did in 2022 which is scary to think about but it has to change.
Hi,
This hasn't been the first time that you have attempted to minimize DJ's solid performances in 2022. I've noticed those that do not like him, have to make up excuse after excuse as to when he succeeds, instead of acknowledging the fact when he plays well.
For instance, against the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2022 he won "NFC offensive player of the week". He threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 100. He accumulated over 300 total yards of offense, and outperformed QB Trevor Lawrence in his home stadium.
So just think about that, you literally criticized QB Daniel Jones' performance after he won "NFC offensive player of the week", just let that sink in for a bit.
As far as his performance against the Ravens, this is what we call cherry picking. I noticed you have conveniently left out the rest of his stats, so let me refresh you on them.
He completed 70% of his passes, he threw 2 TD's and 0 Int. He posted a 112.0 RTG and a 73.9 QBR, and outperformed QB Lamar Jackson and beat him.
His performance against Green Bay was just as good, as he and the Giants beat Aaron Rodgers in London. The stats are right there for anyone to see.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 09, 2024, 07:45:18 PMHi,
This hasn't been the first time that you have attempted to minimize DJ's solid performances in 2022. I've noticed those that do not like him, have to make up excuse after excuse as to when he succeeds, instead of acknowledging the fact when he plays well.
For instance, against the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2022 he won "NFC offensive player of the week". He threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 100. He accumulated over 300 total yards of offense, and outperformed QB Trevor Lawrence in his home stadium.
So just think about that, you literally criticized QB Daniel Jones' performance after he won "NFC offensive player of the week", just let that sink in for a bit.
As far as his performance against the Ravens, this is what we call cherry picking. I noticed you have conveniently left out the rest of his stats, so let me refresh you on them.
He completed 70% of his passes, he threw 2 TD's and 0 Int. He posted a 112.0 RTG and a 73.9 QBR, and outperformed QB Lamar Jackson and beat him.
His performance against Green Bay was just as good, as he and the Giants beat Aaron Rodgers in London. The stats are right there for anyone to see.
SXDX,
You like many others on here perceive critical constructive criticism as "not liking Jones".....this is factually incorrect. It is not that people don't "like" him but rather we don't believe him to be superior is all. Can we win with him?...perhaps if the defense is stalwart and we get some breaks. Some however anoint him the next coming of Montana and find every excuse in the world to make for the guy.
He locks on recievers and he will pay the price because of it. Mark my words. People can tell me I'm wrong and will continue to do so - my response is - we shall see.
Quote from: Trench on June 09, 2024, 08:04:36 PMSXDX,
You like many others on here perceive critical constructive criticism as "not liking Jones".....this is factually incorrect. It is not that people don't "like" him but rather we don't believe him to be superior is all. Can we win with him?...perhaps if the defense is stalwart and we get some breaks. Some however anoint him the next coming of Montana and find every excuse in the world to make for the guy.
He locks on recievers and he will pay the price because of it. Mark my words. People can tell me I'm wrong and will continue to do so - my response is - we shall see.
Hi Trench,
Here is a highlight clip of Daniel Jones vs Jacksonville.
Look at the 34 second time stamp, he looks slightly to his left middle, then looks all the way to his right and hits Slayton for a long TD.
At the 1:49 time stamp he looks to his left, looks to his right, and then looks back to his left and hits the WR over the middle.
No locking on to any receiver.
Does he lock on too much sometimes, yes, he does. However, does he do that all the time, no he does not. Can he improve in this area, yes, he can.
Video clip down below, you can see it for yourself.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 09, 2024, 08:25:08 PMHi Trench,
Here is a highlight clip of Daniel Jones vs Jacksonville.
Look at the 34 second time stamp, he looks slightly to his left middle, then looks all the way to his right and hits Slayton for a long TD.
At the 1:49 time stamp he looks to his left, looks to his right, and then looks back to his left and hits the WR over the middle.
No locking on to any receiver.
Does he lock on too much sometimes, yes, he does. However, does he do that all the time, no he does not. Can he improve in this area, yes, he can.
Video clip down below, you can see it for yourself.
I really appreciate this. I sincerely do. It gives me HOPE. I want this guy to be great. Believe he can be really good actually. BUT BUT BUT....ONLY if he learns to look off the DB!!!....I appreciate u showed this - and someone last week showed Daboll calling a play where he clearly did this (maybe was you??)....BUT it is SO VERY clear this guy never seems to practice it. I am beginning to think it's because he's a bit of a blockhead. Why can't a beat writer ask this question?
Quote from: Trench on June 09, 2024, 11:24:15 PMI really appreciate this. I sincerely do. It gives me HOPE. I want this guy to be great. Believe he can be really good actually. BUT BUT BUT....ONLY if he learns to look off the DB!!!....I appreciate u showed this - and someone last week showed Daboll calling a play where he clearly did this (maybe was you??)....BUT it is SO VERY clear this guy never seems to practice it. I am beginning to think it's because he's a bit of a blockhead. Why can't a beat writer ask this question?
I agree, I would love for a beat writer to ask this question. Maybe one of them will see this and finally ask him why he doesn't do it more often?
Looking at that clip Jones seems more comfortable behind center instead of shotgun
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 09, 2024, 07:45:18 PMHi,
This hasn't been the first time that you have attempted to minimize DJ's solid performances in 2022. I've noticed those that do not like him, have to make up excuse after excuse as to when he succeeds, instead of acknowledging the fact when he plays well.
For instance, against the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2022 he won "NFC offensive player of the week". He threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 100. He accumulated over 300 total yards of offense, and outperformed QB Trevor Lawrence in his home stadium.
So just think about that, you literally criticized QB Daniel Jones' performance after he won "NFC offensive player of the week", just let that sink in for a bit.
As far as his performance against the Ravens, this is what we call cherry picking. I noticed you have conveniently left out the rest of his stats, so let me refresh you on them.
He completed 70% of his passes, he threw 2 TD's and 0 Int. He posted a 112.0 RTG and a 73.9 QBR, and outperformed QB Lamar Jackson and beat him.
His performance against Green Bay was just as good, as he and the Giants beat Aaron Rodgers in London. The stats are right there for anyone to see.
Did you read what I wrote? You took it as a criticism that I said he didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes but it was factual. You can't say Jones won us a game when he's the quarterback and didn't even throw a pass in the final quarter, even when we were down.
I could careless about NFC player of the week, that'd be like Evan Neal getting a participation trophy, who cares.
What I do care about is Jones throwing down the field, you know being a quarterback. Jones gets one more year to show us in year 6 that he can actually throw down the field in "volume" because to this point he hasn't.
I know you are going to bring up him having the best deep ball average as a rookie etc but it is misleading because he went deep significantly less than other Qbs. Infact his deep balls have almost gone down every season he's played as he's regressing whether that be from the oline or his mental makeup.
He likely needs this to keep his job
100 more 1st downs than his avg
60+ 20 yard throws
15+ 40 yard throws
4,000+ yards
20+ Tds
How did a discussion on whether the Giants are playoff team devolve into yet another tirade over Daniel Jones? It doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. DJ is the starting QB of this team in 2024 and until then first game opening day, all criticisms and accolades are history.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 07, 2024, 01:02:51 PMIt will all come down to the OL, IMO. Until we see it on the field they certainly don't have a play-off quality OL. Heck, until we see it on the field they don't even have an NFL quality OL.
To me, this is the key. It's no longer about whether Jones can elevate his play and his teammates. He can't. The team has to elevate and protect him. It's on Bricillo and the offensive line and it's on Daboll on how well he can scheme protection for his QB.
If the line sucks, this offense will blow.
Quote from: Ed Vette on June 10, 2024, 10:10:19 AMHow did a discussion on whether the Giants are playoff team devolve into yet another tirade over Daniel Jones? It doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. DJ is the starting QB of this team in 2024 and until then first game opening day, all criticisms and accolades are history.
Because the two are intricately linked. If the Giants are going to be a playoff team, like a real playoff team that can contend for a title, they need a QB. If Jones is going to suddenly figure it out and be that guy completely out of nowhere...then great. But if he's going to do what he's done for the past 5 seasons they need a new guy in there.
It's tough to look at this as a playoff team given the QB. If they got average to slightly above average play from QB then they very well could be.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 07, 2024, 01:02:51 PMIt will all come down to the OL, IMO. Until we see it on the field they certainly don't have a play-off quality OL. Heck, until we see it on the field they don't even have an NFL quality OL.
Exactly. If the OLine plays well, they definitely can make the play-offs. If the OLine plays poorly, they have absolutely no shot. Doesn't matter how ANY of the other units perform.
Quote from: Gmo11 on June 10, 2024, 11:50:20 AMBecause the two are intricately linked. If the Giants are going to be a playoff team, like a real playoff team that can contend for a title, they need a QB. If Jones is going to suddenly figure it out and be that guy completely out of nowhere...then great. But if he's going to do what he's done for the past 5 seasons they need a new guy in there.
It's tough to look at this as a playoff team given the QB. If they got average to slightly above average play from QB then they very well could be.
Agree with this. Everything about this team is linked to the QB performance
Quote from: Trench on June 10, 2024, 02:57:55 PMAgree with this. Everything about this team is linked to the QB performance
That's also true for 31 other teams.
Quote from: kingm56 on June 10, 2024, 02:59:42 PMThat's also true for 31 other teams.
Not quite. Teams like the 49ers, Steelers and Bucs have shown an ability to win regardless who is at QB
Quote from: Ed Vette on June 10, 2024, 10:10:19 AMHow did a discussion on whether the Giants are playoff team devolve into yet another tirade over Daniel Jones? It doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. DJ is the starting QB of this team in 2024 and until then first game opening day, all criticisms and accolades are history.
Quote from: T200 on June 10, 2024, 10:53:35 AMTo me, this is the key. It's no longer about whether Jones can elevate his play and his teammates. He can't. The team has to elevate and protect him. It's on Bricillo and the offensive line and it's on Daboll on how well he can scheme protection for his QB.
If the line sucks, this offense will blow.
I agree to an extent but looking at the schedule our oline could be significantly better and still get ripped apart because our schedule at least defensively is brutal. Outside the Falcons ànd colts we play some of the best defensive units in the league. So we could be a lot better and still not be better off if that makes sense.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 10, 2024, 09:29:25 AMDid you read what I wrote? You took it as a criticism that I said he didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes but it was factual. You can't say Jones won us a game when he's the quarterback and didn't even throw a pass in the final quarter, even when we were down.
I could careless about NFC player of the week, that'd be like Evan Neal getting a participation trophy, who cares.
What I do care about is Jones throwing down the field, you know being a quarterback. Jones gets one more year to show us in year 6 that he can actually throw down the field in "volume" because to this point he hasn't.
I know you are going to bring up him having the best deep ball average as a rookie etc but it is misleading because he went deep significantly less than other Qbs. Infact his deep balls have almost gone down every season he's played as he's regressing whether that be from the oline or his mental makeup.
He likely needs this to keep his job
100 more 1st downs than his avg
60+ 20 yard throws
15+ 40 yard throws
4,000+ yards
20+ Tds
I highlighted the part up above that I will address.
It's generally not good to infer that someone can't understand what you have said or didn't read what you said. I haven't done that to you, I would kindly ask not to do that to me.
You said that Daniel Jones didn't win the game in the 4th quarter because he didn't throw a pass, but this is what he actually did do.
At the 9:09 mark he scrambled and ran for 24 yards.
At the 8:22 mark he ran for another 9 yards.
At the 2:46 mark he ran for another 15 yards.
At the 5:31 mark he ran it in for the go-ahead touchdown to put them ahead.
He may not have thrown a pass, but his key running was intricate to winning that game and giving them a 23-17 lead.
He was a big part of why they won that game, and he did that all in the 4th quarter.
I have nothing more to say.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 10, 2024, 08:46:04 PMI highlighted the part up above that I will address.
It's generally not good to infer that someone can't understand what you have said or didn't read what you said. I haven't done that to you, I would kindly ask not to do that to me.
You said that Daniel Jones didn't win the game in the 4th quarter because he didn't throw a pass, but this is what he actually did do.
At the 9:09 mark he scrambled and ran for 24 yards.
At the 8:22 mark he ran for another 9 yards.
At the 2:46 mark he ran for another 15 yards.
At the 5:31 mark he ran it in for the go-ahead touchdown to put them ahead.
He may not have thrown a pass, but his key running was intricate to winning that game and giving them a 23-17 lead.
He was a big part of why they won that game, and he did that all in the 4th quarter.
I have nothing more to say.
Isn't that the point a lot of us are trying trying to make though? As a runner I don't think you'll find much criticism. In fact he's quite good at that. The problems with that are:
1) it's tough to come from behind if your QB can't throw
2) being one dimensional makes it a lot easier on the defense. There can be successes but it's hardly sustainable
3) it leads to injuries. As you can See from Jones' lengthy list of previous injuries
I think everybody here would love nothing more than for Jones to throw for 5000 yards and 40 TDs while leading the Giants to the super bowl but there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he's capable of that. Or even half of that.
I think Hyatt meant we can make the playoffs with this roster, baring injury and under-performance
I think the concern about Jones is if he continues to play so poorly then it requires the rest of the team to do some mighty hefty lifting
If we had a hot QB the opposite would happen.
I noticed with the Knicks the team could not out hustle opponents forever.
At some point they became exhausted mentally and imploded.
A better QB would prevent the same fate for this years Giants- just make victories much more easily attainable
Keep the roster more healthy and rested (rotating players)
Hopefully, Jones rises to the occasion. If not he should get the hook pretty quickly for Drew or Tommy. When that would happen is up to Daboll and Schoen.
I'd say 4-5 consecutive games out of the gate of poor QB play should be the limit to their patience. The worst outcome is we field a .500 record and Jones plays on next year. That would just drag things out "forever".
Go Giants!
Quote from: Trench on June 10, 2024, 02:57:55 PMAgree with this. Everything about this team is linked to the QB performance
And, the QB will be awful if the OLine doesn't do their job.