Big Blue Huddle

Great discussion...but I think all Hyatt meant by "playoff team" was that "we are going to get there". Wild card would suffice for me.

Optimistic, not delusional or trying to insinuate, by saying "playoff team", that we are a contender.

I like this kid's attitude.

O-line + Daniel Jones permitting...I believe him.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 08, 2024, 11:12:36 AMAnd that's totally fine. You're more than entitled to feel that way. And I'd be delighted if you end up being right.

Just to be clear though, and others have made this point:

A "playoff team" is not the same thing as a mediocre team could maybe sneak into a six or seven seed if everything breaks their way, they face opposing backup QBs or injury-riddled defenses, they frequently catch teams in off weeks, and the ball generally bounces their way. Almost any NFL team barring maybe five or six out of 32 each year can potentially be the latter. Only four, five, or maybe six in each conference each year are legitimately the former.

So can we be the latter? Sure, maybe, as can most teams. Are we the former? In my opinion, no we are not. Hopefully we will be at some point in the not too far away future, but we are not yet. We clearly weren't last year, and IMO we weren't in 2022 either. And we haven't been in any other season since about 2012. I am not happy about it, but that is the cold hard truth.

By this standard they weren't a playoff team in 2011.  And yet they WERE a Superbowl champion team.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 08, 2024, 01:46:46 PMBy this standard they weren't a playoff team in 2011.  And yet they WERE a Superbowl champion team.

Yes lets be a totally under-rated SB Champion this year
Be the underdog in every game.  I'd like that

Its always better to overachieve than the opposite
KC fans must be very bored at this point

Having said that Jones needs to let it fly.  We have the WRs now to make him shine but he has to realize that.  If not he needs to take a seat

Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 08, 2024, 01:46:46 PMBy this standard they weren't a playoff team in 2011.  And yet they WERE a Superbowl champion team.

The 2011 Giants had a proven veteran QB who had a ring (plus a SB MVP) and a couple of Pro Bowl appearances including that year, which was his best year ever. Not really an apples to apples comparison. They also had a proven good line and some established studs on D. Their 9-7 regular season record was a disappointing underperformance that year.

I admire his confidence.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 08, 2024, 09:12:40 AMHe says that because a majority of the fan base has come to the realization that Jones isn't a top 15 Qb and that 2022 was largely a mirage of good defense with a potent run game, and luck with an easy schedule.

Yes Jones beat a bad Vikings team, but then got smashed the following week vs an actual playoff worthy team.

Your entitled to your opinion, but 2022 wasn't as easy as you may think.

In 2022 Daniel Jones and the Giants beat:

A) Jaguars with QB Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville 23-17
B) Ravens with QB Lamar Jackson 24-20
C) Packers with QB Aaron Rodgers 27-22
D) Panthers with QB Baker Mayfield 19-16
E) Vikings with QB Kirk Cousins 31-24 (Playoff win)

Four out of five of those QB's in 2022 were top fifteen, and Daniel Jones and the Giants beat them, all of them.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 08, 2024, 09:52:43 PMYour entitled to your opinion, but 2022 wasn't as easy as you may think.

In 2022 Daniel Jones and the Giants beat:

A) Jaguars with QB Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville 23-17
B) Ravens with QB Lamar Jackson 24-20
C) Packers with QB Aaron Rodgers 27-22
D) Panthers with QB Baker Mayfield 19-16
E) Vikings with QB Kirk Cousins 31-24 (Playoff win)

Four out of five of those QB's in 2022 were top fifteen, and Daniel Jones and the Giants beat them, all of them.

A) Jones didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes of that game even when we were behind so not sure I'd use that as an example of something Jones did.

B) The difference played exceptional causing Jackson to make a mistake which won us that game. Specifically Thibs and Love. Jones has 173 yards, it was very much a running and defensive game.

C) Again came down to the defense getting multiple stops. Jones didn't go out and win it as much as the defense held GB off at the end.

D) The panthers went 7-10 in 2022 and Jones went for 176 in the game so I'm not sure why it is on the list but ok.

E) The Vikings were historically bad on defense, and Jones did play well. That's the problem though, you can't judge an entire season on 1 game and beating the worst defense in the league isn't the accolade you think it is.

The Giants had a cupcake schedule and as a result lost to every single playoff worthy team that year. Seattle, Detroit, Dallas, Philadelphia etc. It's ok if you think Jones' 170 yards a game passing was the winning factor, but for most it was the defense and running game.

For us to win this year and be in the playoffs Jones will have to actually throw down field, something he's refused to do in the past several seasons. You cant blame that on coaching or the line as Devito doubled him in downfield throws, and Tyrod tripled him in downfield throws.  Jones actually threw deep more on average in 2023 than he did in 2022 which is scary to think about but it has to change.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 09, 2024, 02:37:01 PMA) Jones didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes of that game even when we were behind so not sure I'd use that as an example of something Jones did.

B) The difference played exceptional causing Jackson to make a mistake which won us that game. Specifically Thibs and Love. Jones has 173 yards, it was very much a running and defensive game.

C) Again came down to the defense getting multiple stops. Jones didn't go out and win it as much as the defense held GB off at the end.

D) The panthers went 7-10 in 2022 and Jones went for 176 in the game so I'm not sure why it is on the list but ok.

E) The Vikings were historically bad on defense, and Jones did play well. That's the problem though, you can't judge an entire season on 1 game and beating the worst defense in the league isn't the accolade you think it is.

The Giants had a cupcake schedule and as a result lost to every single playoff worthy team that year. Seattle, Detroit, Dallas, Philadelphia etc. It's ok if you think Jones' 170 yards a game passing was the winning factor, but for most it was the defense and running game.

For us to win this year and be in the playoffs Jones will have to actually throw down field, something he's refused to do in the past several seasons. You cant blame that on coaching or the line as Devito doubled him in downfield throws, and Tyrod tripled him in downfield throws.  Jones actually threw deep more on average in 2023 than he did in 2022 which is scary to think about but
it has to change.

Good post Jess. 

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 09, 2024, 02:37:01 PMA) Jones didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes of that game even when we were behind so not sure I'd use that as an example of something Jones did.

B) The difference played exceptional causing Jackson to make a mistake which won us that game. Specifically Thibs and Love. Jones has 173 yards, it was very much a running and defensive game.

C) Again came down to the defense getting multiple stops. Jones didn't go out and win it as much as the defense held GB off at the end.

D) The panthers went 7-10 in 2022 and Jones went for 176 in the game so I'm not sure why it is on the list but ok.

E) The Vikings were historically bad on defense, and Jones did play well. That's the problem though, you can't judge an entire season on 1 game and beating the worst defense in the league isn't the accolade you think it is.

The Giants had a cupcake schedule and as a result lost to every single playoff worthy team that year. Seattle, Detroit, Dallas, Philadelphia etc. It's ok if you think Jones' 170 yards a game passing was the winning factor, but for most it was the defense and running game.

For us to win this year and be in the playoffs Jones will have to actually throw down field, something he's refused to do in the past several seasons. You cant blame that on coaching or the line as Devito doubled him in downfield throws, and Tyrod tripled him in downfield throws.  Jones actually threw deep more on average in 2023 than he did in 2022 which is scary to think about but it has to change.

Hi,

This hasn't been the first time that you have attempted to minimize DJ's solid performances in 2022. I've noticed those that do not like him, have to make up excuse after excuse as to when he succeeds, instead of acknowledging the fact when he plays well.

For instance, against the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2022 he won "NFC offensive player of the week". He threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 100. He accumulated over 300 total yards of offense, and outperformed QB Trevor Lawrence in his home stadium.

So just think about that, you literally criticized QB Daniel Jones' performance after he won "NFC offensive player of the week", just let that sink in for a bit.

As far as his performance against the Ravens, this is what we call cherry picking. I noticed you have conveniently left out the rest of his stats, so let me refresh you on them.

He completed 70% of his passes, he threw 2 TD's and 0 Int. He posted a 112.0 RTG and a 73.9 QBR, and outperformed QB Lamar Jackson and beat him.

His performance against Green Bay was just as good, as he and the Giants beat Aaron Rodgers in London. The stats are right there for anyone to see.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 09, 2024, 07:45:18 PMHi,

This hasn't been the first time that you have attempted to minimize DJ's solid performances in 2022. I've noticed those that do not like him, have to make up excuse after excuse as to when he succeeds, instead of acknowledging the fact when he plays well.

For instance, against the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2022 he won "NFC offensive player of the week". He threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 100. He accumulated over 300 total yards of offense, and outperformed QB Trevor Lawrence in his home stadium.

So just think about that, you literally criticized QB Daniel Jones' performance after he won "NFC offensive player of the week", just let that sink in for a bit.

As far as his performance against the Ravens, this is what we call cherry picking. I noticed you have conveniently left out the rest of his stats, so let me refresh you on them.

He completed 70% of his passes, he threw 2 TD's and 0 Int. He posted a 112.0 RTG and a 73.9 QBR, and outperformed QB Lamar Jackson and beat him.

His performance against Green Bay was just as good, as he and the Giants beat Aaron Rodgers in London. The stats are right there for anyone to see.

SXDX,

You like many others on here perceive critical constructive criticism as "not liking Jones".....this is factually incorrect. It is not that people don't "like" him but rather we don't believe him to be superior is all. Can we win with him?...perhaps if the defense is stalwart and we get some breaks. Some however anoint him the next coming of Montana and find every excuse in the world to make for the guy.

He locks on recievers and he will pay the price because of it. Mark my words. People can tell me I'm wrong and will continue to do so - my response is - we shall see.

Quote from: Trench on June 09, 2024, 08:04:36 PMSXDX,

You like many others on here perceive critical constructive criticism as "not liking Jones".....this is factually incorrect. It is not that people don't "like" him but rather we don't believe him to be superior is all. Can we win with him?...perhaps if the defense is stalwart and we get some breaks. Some however anoint him the next coming of Montana and find every excuse in the world to make for the guy.

He locks on recievers and he will pay the price because of it. Mark my words. People can tell me I'm wrong and will continue to do so - my response is - we shall see.

Hi Trench,

Here is a highlight clip of Daniel Jones vs Jacksonville.

Look at the 34 second time stamp, he looks slightly to his left middle, then looks all the way to his right and hits Slayton for a long TD.

At the 1:49 time stamp he looks to his left, looks to his right, and then looks back to his left and hits the WR over the middle.

No locking on to any receiver.

Does he lock on too much sometimes, yes, he does. However, does he do that all the time, no he does not. Can he improve in this area, yes, he can.

Video clip down below, you can see it for yourself.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 09, 2024, 08:25:08 PMHi Trench,

Here is a highlight clip of Daniel Jones vs Jacksonville.

Look at the 34 second time stamp, he looks slightly to his left middle, then looks all the way to his right and hits Slayton for a long TD.

At the 1:49 time stamp he looks to his left, looks to his right, and then looks back to his left and hits the WR over the middle.

No locking on to any receiver.

Does he lock on too much sometimes, yes, he does. However, does he do that all the time, no he does not. Can he improve in this area, yes, he can.

Video clip down below, you can see it for yourself.

I really appreciate this. I sincerely do. It gives me HOPE. I want this guy to be great. Believe he can be really good actually. BUT BUT BUT....ONLY if he learns to look off the DB!!!....I appreciate u showed this - and someone last week showed Daboll calling a play where he clearly did this (maybe was you??)....BUT it is SO VERY clear this guy never seems to practice it. I am beginning to think it's because he's a bit of a blockhead. Why can't a beat writer ask this question?

Quote from: Trench on June 09, 2024, 11:24:15 PMI really appreciate this. I sincerely do. It gives me HOPE. I want this guy to be great. Believe he can be really good actually. BUT BUT BUT....ONLY if he learns to look off the DB!!!....I appreciate u showed this - and someone last week showed Daboll calling a play where he clearly did this (maybe was you??)....BUT it is SO VERY clear this guy never seems to practice it. I am beginning to think it's because he's a bit of a blockhead. Why can't a beat writer ask this question?

I agree, I would love for a beat writer to ask this question. Maybe one of them will see this and finally ask him why he doesn't do it more often?

Looking at that clip Jones seems more comfortable behind center instead of shotgun

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 09, 2024, 07:45:18 PMHi,

This hasn't been the first time that you have attempted to minimize DJ's solid performances in 2022. I've noticed those that do not like him, have to make up excuse after excuse as to when he succeeds, instead of acknowledging the fact when he plays well.

For instance, against the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2022 he won "NFC offensive player of the week". He threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 100. He accumulated over 300 total yards of offense, and outperformed QB Trevor Lawrence in his home stadium.

So just think about that, you literally criticized QB Daniel Jones' performance after he won "NFC offensive player of the week", just let that sink in for a bit.

As far as his performance against the Ravens, this is what we call cherry picking. I noticed you have conveniently left out the rest of his stats, so let me refresh you on them.

He completed 70% of his passes, he threw 2 TD's and 0 Int. He posted a 112.0 RTG and a 73.9 QBR, and outperformed QB Lamar Jackson and beat him.

His performance against Green Bay was just as good, as he and the Giants beat Aaron Rodgers in London. The stats are right there for anyone to see.

Did you read what I wrote? You took it as a criticism that I said he didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes but it was factual. You can't say Jones won us a game when he's the quarterback and didn't even throw a pass in the final quarter, even when we were down.

I could careless about NFC player of the week, that'd be like Evan Neal getting a participation trophy, who cares.

What I do care about is Jones throwing down the field, you know being a quarterback. Jones gets one more year to show us in year 6 that he can actually throw down the field in "volume" because to this point he hasn't.

I know you are going to bring up him having the best deep ball average as a rookie etc but it is misleading because he went deep significantly less than other Qbs. Infact his deep balls have almost gone down every season he's played as he's regressing whether that be from the oline or his mental makeup.

He likely needs this to keep his job

100 more 1st downs than his avg
60+ 20 yard throws
15+ 40 yard throws
4,000+ yards
20+ Tds