Big Blue Huddle

How did a discussion on whether the Giants are playoff team devolve into yet another tirade over Daniel Jones? It doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. DJ is the starting QB of this team in 2024 and until then first game opening day, all criticisms and accolades are history.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 07, 2024, 01:02:51 PMIt will all come down to the OL, IMO.  Until we see it on the field they certainly don't have a play-off quality OL.  Heck, until we see it on the field they don't even have an NFL quality OL.

To me, this is the key. It's no longer about whether Jones can elevate his play and his teammates. He can't. The team has to elevate and protect him. It's on Bricillo and the offensive line and it's on Daboll on how well he can scheme protection for his QB.

If the line sucks, this offense will blow.

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 10, 2024, 10:10:19 AMHow did a discussion on whether the Giants are playoff team devolve into yet another tirade over Daniel Jones? It doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. DJ is the starting QB of this team in 2024 and until then first game opening day, all criticisms and accolades are history.

Because the two are intricately linked.  If the Giants are going to be a playoff team, like a real playoff team that can contend for a title, they need a QB. If Jones is going to suddenly figure it out and be that guy completely out of nowhere...then great.  But if he's going to do what he's done for the past 5 seasons they need a new guy in there. 

It's tough to look at this as a playoff team given the QB.  If they got average to slightly above average play from QB then they very well could be.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 07, 2024, 01:02:51 PMIt will all come down to the OL, IMO.  Until we see it on the field they certainly don't have a play-off quality OL.  Heck, until we see it on the field they don't even have an NFL quality OL.

Exactly.  If the OLine plays well, they definitely can make the play-offs.  If the OLine plays poorly, they have absolutely no shot.  Doesn't matter how ANY of the other units perform.

Quote from: Gmo11 on June 10, 2024, 11:50:20 AMBecause the two are intricately linked.  If the Giants are going to be a playoff team, like a real playoff team that can contend for a title, they need a QB. If Jones is going to suddenly figure it out and be that guy completely out of nowhere...then great.  But if he's going to do what he's done for the past 5 seasons they need a new guy in there. 

It's tough to look at this as a playoff team given the QB.  If they got average to slightly above average play from QB then they very well could be.

Agree with this. Everything about this team is linked to the QB performance

Quote from: Trench on June 10, 2024, 02:57:55 PMAgree with this. Everything about this team is linked to the QB performance

That's also true for 31 other teams. 

Quote from: kingm56 on June 10, 2024, 02:59:42 PMThat's also true for 31 other teams. 

Not quite. Teams like the 49ers, Steelers and Bucs have shown an ability to win regardless who is at QB

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 10, 2024, 10:10:19 AMHow did a discussion on whether the Giants are playoff team devolve into yet another tirade over Daniel Jones? It doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. DJ is the starting QB of this team in 2024 and until then first game opening day, all criticisms and accolades are history.

Quote from: T200 on June 10, 2024, 10:53:35 AMTo me, this is the key. It's no longer about whether Jones can elevate his play and his teammates. He can't. The team has to elevate and protect him. It's on Bricillo and the offensive line and it's on Daboll on how well he can scheme protection for his QB.

If the line sucks, this offense will blow.

I agree to an extent but looking at the schedule our oline could be significantly better and still get ripped apart because our schedule at least defensively is brutal. Outside the Falcons ànd colts we play some of the best defensive units in the league. So we could be a lot better and still not be better off if that makes sense.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 10, 2024, 09:29:25 AMDid you read what I wrote? You took it as a criticism that I said he didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes but it was factual. You can't say Jones won us a game when he's the quarterback and didn't even throw a pass in the final quarter, even when we were down.

I could careless about NFC player of the week, that'd be like Evan Neal getting a participation trophy, who cares.

What I do care about is Jones throwing down the field, you know being a quarterback. Jones gets one more year to show us in year 6 that he can actually throw down the field in "volume" because to this point he hasn't.

I know you are going to bring up him having the best deep ball average as a rookie etc but it is misleading because he went deep significantly less than other Qbs. Infact his deep balls have almost gone down every season he's played as he's regressing whether that be from the oline or his mental makeup.

He likely needs this to keep his job

100 more 1st downs than his avg
60+ 20 yard throws
15+ 40 yard throws
4,000+ yards
20+ Tds

I highlighted the part up above that I will address.

It's generally not good to infer that someone can't understand what you have said or didn't read what you said. I haven't done that to you, I would kindly ask not to do that to me. 

You said that Daniel Jones didn't win the game in the 4th quarter because he didn't throw a pass, but this is what he actually did do.

At the 9:09 mark he scrambled and ran for 24 yards.

At the 8:22 mark he ran for another 9 yards.

At the 2:46 mark he ran for another 15 yards.

At the 5:31 mark he ran it in for the go-ahead touchdown to put them ahead.

He may not have thrown a pass, but his key running was intricate to winning that game and giving them a 23-17 lead.

He was a big part of why they won that game, and he did that all in the 4th quarter.

I have nothing more to say.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 10, 2024, 08:46:04 PMI highlighted the part up above that I will address.

It's generally not good to infer that someone can't understand what you have said or didn't read what you said. I haven't done that to you, I would kindly ask not to do that to me. 

You said that Daniel Jones didn't win the game in the 4th quarter because he didn't throw a pass, but this is what he actually did do.

At the 9:09 mark he scrambled and ran for 24 yards.

At the 8:22 mark he ran for another 9 yards.

At the 2:46 mark he ran for another 15 yards.

At the 5:31 mark he ran it in for the go-ahead touchdown to put them ahead.

He may not have thrown a pass, but his key running was intricate to winning that game and giving them a 23-17 lead.

He was a big part of why they won that game, and he did that all in the 4th quarter.

I have nothing more to say.

Isn't that the point a lot of us are trying trying to make though? As a runner I don't think you'll find much criticism. In fact he's quite good at that. The problems with that are:

1) it's tough to come from behind if your QB can't throw

2) being one dimensional makes it a lot easier on the defense. There can be successes but it's hardly sustainable

3) it leads to injuries. As you can See from Jones' lengthy list of previous injuries

I think everybody here would love nothing more than for Jones to throw for 5000 yards and 40 TDs while leading the Giants to the super bowl but there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he's capable of that. Or even half of that.

I think Hyatt meant we can make the playoffs with this roster, baring injury and under-performance

I think the concern about Jones is if he continues to play so poorly then it requires the rest of the team to do some mighty hefty lifting

If we had a hot QB the opposite would happen.

I noticed with the Knicks the team could not out hustle opponents forever.
At some point they became exhausted mentally and imploded.

A better QB would prevent the same fate for this years Giants- just make victories much more easily attainable
Keep the roster more healthy and rested (rotating players)

Hopefully, Jones rises to the occasion.  If not he should get the hook pretty quickly for Drew or Tommy.  When that would happen is up to Daboll and Schoen.

I'd say 4-5 consecutive games out of the gate of poor QB play should be the limit to their patience.  The worst outcome is we field a .500 record and Jones plays on next year.  That would just drag things out "forever". 

Go Giants!

Quote from: Trench on June 10, 2024, 02:57:55 PMAgree with this. Everything about this team is linked to the QB performance

And, the QB will be awful if the OLine doesn't do their job.