This article does a pretty good job breaking down all the QB options available to NYG in 2025 (although they omitted Dart and McCord as draft prospects)
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2025-nfl-qb-market-top-free-agents-trade-targets-cut-candidates-projected-landing-spots-contracts-more/
I tend to lean toward signing Justin Fields as the bridge and drafting someone like Dart in round 2. If it doesn't work out, you go QB in the 2026 draft.
Rich, imagine Rodgers would want to stay in NY, would you sign him?
A plethora of options. I like Wilson as a leader and a strong voice. The Steelers may not resign him, but he's resurrected his career there.
I agree that leaving Dart and McCord out of the mix may be a mistake. I think they could prove to be better than backups. Whenever I see clear improvement in a short period of time, it raises the ceiling for me.
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 07, 2025, 09:14:50 AMRich, imagine Rodgers would want to stay in NY, would you sign him?
:what:
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 07, 2025, 09:14:50 AMRich, imagine Rodgers would want to stay in NY, would you sign him?
I don't think I would. First, he is more reputation than production these days. (no admittedly this was with the Jets, but it's not like the Giants would give him more to work with)
PFF rank- 15th 77.8 grade
QBR rank- 25th 48.2 grade
QB rating- 20th 90.5 grade
He is 41 and will turn 42 before the end of the next NFL season (December), so you have to anticipate further decline.
Add to that the a-hole factor (reported by league sources) and the distractions we witnessed with the Jets (like skipping mini-camp for a vacation).
Finally, he would like not to come cheap and would probably demand $20 million or so to return for another season.
Plus, if I were Rodgers, why would I sign with the Giants? He has plenty of money, so $20 more isn't a huge incentive for the beating he will have to endure. It's not like he would realistically be competing for a championship or even a playoff.
So for all those reasons, I would pass. I would rather take a flyer on a younger QB with some potential upside like Fields.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 07, 2025, 09:26:11 AMI don't think I would. First, he is more reputation than production these days. (no admittedly this was with the Jets, but it's not like the Giants would give him more to work with)
PFF rank- 15th 77.8 grade
QBR rank- 25th 48.2 grade
QB rating- 20th 90.5 grade
He is 41 and will turn 42 before the end of the next NFL season (December), so you have to anticipate further decline.
Add to that the a-hole (reported by league sources) and the distractions we witnessed with the Jets (like skipping mini-camp for a vacation).
Finally, he would like not to come cheap and would probably demand $20 million or so to return for another season.
Plus, if I were Rodgers, why would I sign with the Giants? He has plenty of money, so $20 more isn't a huge incentive for the beating he will have to endure. It's not like he would realistically be competing for a championship or even a playoff.
So for all those reasons, I would pass. I would rather take a flyer on a younger QB with some potential upside like Fields.
That's fair. ;)
Thanks for your view, always appreciated.
From my side, this was just a wild thought... :D
again, overlooking Will Howard, QB, OSU. He's the guy...top of round 2. Go Giants.
Quote from: President Rick on January 07, 2025, 11:04:05 AMagain, overlooking Will Howard, QB, OSU. He's the guy...top of round 2. Go Giants.
I didn't know much about about him, but I think this Reddit thread does a good job on him
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1hrrmba/what_is_will_howards_draft_ceiling/
QB prospects with more football
College Playoffs
Howard OSU, Ewers Texas, Allar PSU (some rumors he might change his mind about entering the draft), and Leonard ND
Senior Bowl
Jaxson DartQB | Mississippi
Will HowardQB | Ohio State
Dillon GabrielQB | Oregon
Riley LeonardQB | Notre Dame
Tyler ShoughQB | Louisville
Shrine Bowl
Shedeur Sanders, Colorado
Kyle McCord, Syracuse
Tyler Shough, Louisville
Kurtis Rourke, Indiana
There seems to be some Justin Fields interest in this forum these days. I have to admit I don't get it. He is a slow processor and holds on to the ball too long. I would think if he is the starter next year, Daboll will be out at the end of the year.
Steelers offense got better once Fields was replaced with Wilson. He has been in the league for 4 years and has not made any significant progress as a passer. Can someone give me a reason they like Fields other than physical attributes that they want to see him as a Giant? Is there some part of being a QB that he is showing improvement on ?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 07, 2025, 11:49:48 AMThere seems to be some Justin Fields interest in this forum these days. I have to admit I don't get it. He is a slow processor and holds on to the ball too long. I would think if he is the starter next year, Daboll will be out at the end of the year.
Steelers offense got better once Fields was replaced with Wilson. He has been in the league for 4 years and has not made any significant progress as a passer. Can someone give me a reason they like Fields other than physical attributes that they want to see him as a Giant? Is there some part of being a QB that he is showing improvement on ?
Matt,
I wasn't interested in Fields last season, but I am this season (using the "beggers can't be choosers" logic. Who do you think would be a realistic alternative to Fields that would give Schoen and Daboll a chance to put up a respectable record?
Major Patriots Trade Report Emerges to Begin Offseason
Rookie quarterback Joe Milton III is receiving attention from other teams in the league after his Week 18 performance on Sunday.
https://chowderandchampions.com/major-patriots-trade-report-emerges-begin-offseason-01jgykdq2gah
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 07, 2025, 11:52:08 AMMatt,
I wasn't interested in Fields last season, but I am this season (using the "beggers can't be choosers" logic. Who do you think would be a realistic alternative to Fields that would give Schoen and Daboll a chance to put up a respectable record?
Who is going to be available? I mean, there is a list of names in that article, but I don't know if Darnold will be available.
Russell Wilson is on the list in that article and its obvious the Steelers thought he was better than Fields.
I think Fields will be available, but just not sure of who else will be. Further, we are talking about taking a QB off the scrap heap and trying to win games with below average OL, so I am not sure there are any guys that are going to get the job done.
In short, I think Mara put off the inevitable for a year.
Quote from: President Rick on January 07, 2025, 11:04:05 AMagain, overlooking Will Howard, QB, OSU. He's the guy...top of round 2. Go Giants.
There's no way Howard goes in round 2. Milroe - and maybe Ewers if he comes out - are the 2 QBs projected to go in the second round.
After them, there's still Beck (even post injury) and Dart who rank above Howard.
Howard and McCord then are at the top of tier 4 - which I'd be fine considering in the 4th round.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 07, 2025, 11:49:48 AMThere seems to be some Justin Fields interest in this forum these days. I have to admit I don't get it. He is a slow processor and holds on to the ball too long. I would think if he is the starter next year, Daboll will be out at the end of the year.
Steelers offense got better once Fields was replaced with Wilson. He has been in the league for 4 years and has not made any significant progress as a passer. Can someone give me a reason they like Fields other than physical attributes that they want to see him as a Giant? Is there some part of being a QB that he is showing improvement on ?
Fields got the Steelers off to 4-2 start
Wilson go the Steelers to a 6-5 finish
Fields had career highs in Completion percentage and passing rating so he did get better with better coaching and teammates.
Just saying.
I like Fields plus a rookie QB in the mid rounds, especially if we can steal some picks with a trade down OR Travis Hunter falls to us at number three overall.
I'd also like to draft Trayvon Henderson to complement Tracy in the backfield.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 07, 2025, 04:02:23 PMFields got the Steelers off to 4-2 start
Wilson go the Steelers to a 6-5 finish
Fields had career highs in Completion percentage and passing rating so he did get better with better coaching and teammates.
Just saying.
He didn't look any better. The Steelers had a top 3 defense for that part of the year. If you want stats, his QBR pretty much looks the same.
Steelers scored more points with Russell Wilson and instantly were a better offense without Fields. If Fields is any bit as good any people think, he won't be leaving Pittsburgh, but I am guessing Tomlin will wave goodbye.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 07, 2025, 04:44:08 PMHe didn't look any better. The Steelers had a top 3 defense for that part of the year. If you want stats, his QBR pretty much looks the same.
Steelers scored more points with Russell Wilson and instantly were a better offense without Fields. If Fields is any bit as good any people think, he won't be leaving Pittsburgh, but I am guessing Tomlin will wave goodbye.
That's the point - he's an inexpensive/descent bridge QB until next season. IMO, of the available QBs, he represents the best ROI.
Quote from: kingm56 on January 07, 2025, 04:54:51 PMThat's the point - he's an inexpensive/descent bridge QB until next season. IMO, of the available QBs, he represents the best ROI.
I think Tim Boyle would be just as cheap. Why does it even matter who a "bridge" QB is? I don't get this interest in him at all. He won't be good, his indecisiveness and poor processing won't help develop the OL. I just don't get the attraction at all.
In a perfect world any bridge QB should share some characteristics with the targeted QB of the future. Even though Lock looked an odd choice to us we might see him as a lightweight Hallmark rip-off version of the original multi-award winning Josh Allen movie - big bodied, somewhat mobile, gunslinger reputation. If you squint hard in a failing light. Well, you get the idea.
Somewhat alarmingly the potential bridge QB who arguably best fits that profile is Jameis Winston. I have not done enough work on the rookies to have a firm view on who also best fits this profile as at first glance none seem a really close fit. Beck or Rourke for size? Milroe or Dart for mobility? Ward for mentality and arm?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 07, 2025, 04:59:05 PMI think Tim Boyle would be just as cheap. Why does it even matter who a "bridge" QB is? I don't get this interest in him at all. He won't be good, his indecisiveness and poor processing won't help develop the OL. I just don't get the attraction at all.
At just 25 years old, he has already demonstrated the ability to play above average football despite being on some subpar teams. In 2022, he earned MVP and AP votes, an impressive achievement considering he played with limited offensive talent around him. BL: is there another cheap option that can deliver 28 TDs/year?
2022 (Passing):
2540 YDS / 19 TDs / 11 INTs / 56.3 QBR
2022 (Rushing):
1295 YDS / 9 TDs
-----------------------------------------------
2024 (Passing):
3133 YDS / 14 TDs / 3 INTs / 51.3 QBR
2024 (Rushing):
818 YDS / 14 TDs
**All numbers are 17-game projections.**
Once again, it's important to acknowledge that no one is suggesting he should be the franchise quarterback long-term. However, he is more than capable of helping the Giants remain competitive during a transition year. His presence provides a solid bridge while the team works to establish a more sustainable future. I don't believe he's magically going to become a +passer...I'm just looking for a guy to get us to 2026, while still being able to make plays and protect the football...
If he exceeds expectations, that's a win—suddenly, the Giants might find themselves with a viable quarterback solution, and you're ahead of schedule. On the other hand, if his performance falls short, that's not the end of the world either. It simply means the Giants will be in a prime position to draft a true franchise quarterback in 2026, giving them a clear path forward. Either way, the team has flexibility...
Quote from: londonblue on January 07, 2025, 05:16:09 PMIn a perfect world any bridge QB should share some characteristics with the targeted QB of the future. Even though Lock looked an odd choice to us we might see him as a lightweight Hallmark rip-off version of the original multi-award winning Josh Allen movie - big bodied, somewhat mobile, gunslinger reputation. If you squint hard in a failing light. Well, you get the idea.
Somewhat alarmingly the potential bridge QB who arguably best fits that profile is Jameis Winston. I have not done enough work on the rookies to have a firm view on who also best fits this profile as at first glance none seem a really close fit. Beck or Rourke for size? Milroe or Dart for mobility? Ward for mentality and arm?
Neal,
I completely agree with your point about matching the characteristics of the starter and the backup.
Oddly enough, NFL teams don't always follow the rule as witnessed by pairings of Flacco/Richardson and Cosins/Pennix.
Since FA signings will happen so soon before the draft it will be challenging to predict at that time, at least with certainty, who they will be drafting.
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 07, 2025, 09:14:50 AMRich, imagine Rodgers would want to stay in NY, would you sign him?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 07, 2025, 09:19:09 AMA plethora of options. I like Wilson as a leader and a strong voice. The Steelers may not resign him, but he's resurrected his career there.
I agree that leaving Dart and McCord out of the mix may be a mistake. I think they could prove to be better than backups. Whenever I see clear improvement in a short period of time, it raises the ceiling for me.
Wilson is 36. If he were to accept a 1-2 year deal for say $15MM per but someone will give him more.
I don't get the Fields suggestions either. If it isn't clear he's not a very good QB by now, I'm not sure what evidence you're looking at. The Steelers (a winning organization) gave up on him despite being 4-2. That tells you a lot.
If you're Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen and you're hanging by a thread - Justin Fields isn't where you turn. I think they'll definitely look at Stafford and Russell Wilson.
Browns and Raiders are desperate for a QB..and Schoen can't waste draft capital moving up. But I think the Titans should trade down. And will get probably a great, huge offer from Vegas.
But I don't believe Schoen will not throw a haily Mary. Overpay.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 07, 2025, 04:12:49 PMI like Fields plus a rookie QB in the mid rounds, especially if we can steal some picks with a trade down OR Travis Hunter falls to us at number three overall.
I'd also like to draft Trayvon Henderson to complement Tracy in the backfield.
I think Judkins is the Ohio St. RB to target to complement Tracy.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 07, 2025, 10:33:06 PMI think Judkins is the Ohio St. RB to target to complement Tracy.
The depth at RB in this draft is crazy.
1. Jeanty
2. Omarion Hampton
3. Kaleb Johnson
4. Dylan Sampson
5. Judkins
6. Nicholas Singleton
7. Henderson
I actually think Hampton will be a better prospect than Jeanty, Hampton is elite but yeah we should be able to get a great rb later but I doubt we will with Singletary still under contract. Judkins would be the better compliment.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 07, 2025, 12:52:33 PMThere's no way Howard goes in round 2. Milroe - and maybe Ewers if he comes out - are the 2 QBs projected to go in the second round.
After them, there's still Beck (even post injury) and Dart who rank above Howard.
Howard and McCord then are at the top of tier 4 - which I'd be fine considering in the 4th round.
There's no way you can say that at this point. Will Howard has two national TV huge competition potentially left. If he moves Ohio State's offense like he has past two games, he may very move up draft boards. Additionally the post second events always cause draft movement. Too much in flux.
Quote from: 4 Aces on January 07, 2025, 08:44:28 PMI don't get the Fields suggestions either. If it isn't clear he's not a very good QB by now, I'm not sure what evidence you're looking at. The Steelers (a winning organization) gave up on him despite being 4-2. That tells you a lot.
If you're Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen and you're hanging by a thread - Justin Fields isn't where you turn. I think they'll definitely look at Stafford and Russell Wilson.
When you go with an aging QB like Stafford or Wilson, either you are a talented roster making a run at the Super Bowl, or you have your future QB, and you want to give him time to get ready. With the draft QB prospects where the Giants select and the Giants roster, I am not sure either situation applies to the Giants.
For those of you who believe that Judkins is a better choice than Henderson, I'd love to know your reasoning.
I watch every Ohio State game and while Judkins is also really good, Henderson is a better pass protector, receiver, always seems to make great decisions and is a threat to take it to the house nearly every time he touches the ball.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: kingm56 on January 07, 2025, 05:29:19 PMAt just 25 years old, he has already demonstrated the ability to play above average football despite being on some subpar teams. In 2022, he earned MVP and AP votes, an impressive achievement considering he played with limited offensive talent around him. BL: is there another cheap option that can deliver 28 TDs/year?
2022 (Passing):
2540 YDS / 19 TDs / 11 INTs / 56.3 QBR
2022 (Rushing):
1295 YDS / 9 TDs
-----------------------------------------------
2024 (Passing):
3133 YDS / 14 TDs / 3 INTs / 51.3 QBR
2024 (Rushing):
818 YDS / 14 TDs
**All numbers are 17-game projections.**
Once again, it's important to acknowledge that no one is suggesting he should be the franchise quarterback long-term. However, he is more than capable of helping the Giants remain competitive during a transition year. His presence provides a solid bridge while the team works to establish a more sustainable future. I don't believe he's magically going to become a +passer...I'm just looking for a guy to get us to 2026, while still being able to make plays and protect the football...
If he exceeds expectations, that's a win—suddenly, the Giants might find themselves with a viable quarterback solution, and you're ahead of schedule. On the other hand, if his performance falls short, that's not the end of the world either. It simply means the Giants will be in a prime position to draft a true franchise quarterback in 2026, giving them a clear path forward. Either way, the team has flexibility...
Matt,
So I take it you are not advocating the Giants drafting a QB in this year's draft. I can understand that, as it is a weak QB class. That said, do you think that is what the Giants will do?
I'd rather grab a Raheim Sanders, Tahj Brooks, or Devin Neal later in the draft.
Dan usually has some solid takes on QBs
https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1877035646386053235
https://x.com/robiwittmore/status/1877081110061944887?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
I place my trust in the Hall of Fame coach of the Steelers.
If he felt at 4-2 he needed a QB change then he knows something and did it for a reason.
Stay FAR away from Fields for this reason. Trust Tomlin judgement.
PS - has any other team that u remember changed QBs with a 4-2 record?...it was fascinating
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 08, 2025, 11:56:24 AMDan usually has some solid takes on QBs
https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1877035646386053235
So basically, he's interested in almost everyone that will be available.
Thanks, Dan. That's some insight.
Ceri Dovey💙
@ukgiantsfan1
·
1h
Replying to
@art_stapleton
Slightly off topic, but what are your thoughts on Kyle McCord? His winning a shoot-out with Cam gave me a different perspective on his talents. To me, he's a better QB (and prospect) than the Ohio State QB playing in the other semifinal. Potential fallback option for NYG?
Tonight's game pitting PSU and Notre Dame might be worth watching (7:30 EST start).
Notre Dame has one of the best pass defenses in the country. Should Drew Allar light it up against them, his draft stock could skyrocket and cause him to rethink his decision to stay in school. Allar has all the physical tools of a top QB. If he declares and has a good post-season draft process, he is the type of prospect that could potentially be in play for NYG at three.
Nick Falato has a high-level understanding of football and QB play. Here is an article where he explores the possibility of NYG signing Fields
https://www.bigblueview.com/2025/1/9/24339240/new-york-giants-should-pursue-qb-justin-fields-nfl-free-agency-pro-football-focus
https://x.com/marcraimondi/status/1877385777711124532
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 11:53:30 AMhttps://x.com/marcraimondi/status/1877385777711124532
Rich: Many may disagree, but it sounds to me like they're fishing for a trade offer. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 09, 2025, 11:59:38 AMRich: Many may disagree, but it sounds to me like they're fishing for a trade offer. Bob
A trade would help the Falcons so a trade would likely involve the FALCONS sending draft picks with Cousins. The thing is (based on what I could see looking at his contract), Cousins' 2025 salary of $27.5 million is guaranteed.
Of course, the team that trades for Cousins will suffer that $27.5 million cap hit (even if they spread it out by converting it to a signing bonus). That's a hefty price for a QB who may be too old to be starter.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 09:04:50 AMTonight's game pitting PSU and Notre Dame might be worth watching (7:30 EST start).
Notre Dame has one of the best pass defenses in the country. Should Drew Allar light it up against them, his draft stock could skyrocket and cause him to rethink his decision to stay in school. Allar has all the physical tools of a top QB. If he declares and has a good post-season draft process, he is the type of prospect that could potentially be in play for NYG at three.
Highly doubt this happens. ND's secondary is very good and our WRs...not so much. And Allar has all the physical tools but just hasn't put them together yet (I'm hopeful it's because we need significantly upgraded talent at WR).
Fully expect the PSU offense to run directly through our RB duo and Tyler Warren- against an injured front 7. Anything different would be coaching malpractice. LET'S GO PSU!!!!
Quote from: PSUBeirut on January 09, 2025, 12:10:07 PMHighly doubt this happens. ND's secondary is very good and our WRs...not so much. And Allar has all the physical tools but just hasn't put them together yet (I'm hopeful it's because we need significantly upgraded talent at WR).
Fully expect the PSU offense to run directly through our RB duo and Tyler Warren- against an injured front 7. Anything different would be coaching malpractice. LET'S GO PSU!!!!
Thank you for raining on my parade :P
Seriously, I am just hoping one of the second-tier QBs does enough to justify being drafted with the third pick. While I am not opposed to drafting a QB via trade back to the bottom or round one or the top of round two, the problem is when you go that route there is no assurance of getting your man
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 12:05:00 PMA trade would help the Falcons so a trade would likely involve the FALCONS sending draft picks with Cousins. The thing is (based on what I could see looking at his contract), Cousins' 2025 salary of $27.5 million is guaranteed.
Of course, the team that trades for Cousins will suffer that $27.5 million cap hit (even if they spread it out by converting it to a signing bonus). That's a hefty price for a QB who may be too old to be starter.
Would be shocked if anyone traded even a 7th for him with that cap hit. But stranger things have happened.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on January 09, 2025, 12:14:48 PMWould be shocked if anyone traded even a 7th for him with that cap hit. But stranger things have happened.
Remember 7 years ago
With an eye on making another move at quarterback, Cleveland acquired veteran Brock Oswelier and a 2018 second-round pick on Thursday in a stunning trade with the Houston Texans, who were looking for a partner to help them get rid of the QB's $16m guaranteed contract.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/09/brock-osweiler-cleveland-browns-houston-texans-trade
Strike one prospect off the list
https://x.com/On3sports/status/1877434008809636051
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 07, 2025, 09:19:09 AMA plethora of options. I like Wilson as a leader and a strong voice. The Steelers may not resign him, but he's resurrected his career there.
I agree that leaving Dart and McCord out of the mix may be a mistake. I think they could prove to be better than backups. Whenever I see clear improvement in a short period of time, it raises the ceiling for me.
would still be better than anything we've had for half a decade
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 07, 2025, 11:49:48 AMThere seems to be some Justin Fields interest in this forum these days. I have to admit I don't get it. He is a slow processor and holds on to the ball too long. I would think if he is the starter next year, Daboll will be out at the end of the year.
Steelers offense got better once Fields was replaced with Wilson. He has been in the league for 4 years and has not made any significant progress as a passer. Can someone give me a reason they like Fields other than physical attributes that they want to see him as a Giant? Is there some part of being a QB that he is showing improvement on ?
Agreed. he's just a more athletic jones.
https://x.com/corryjoel/status/1877458916604362903
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 02:47:54 PMStrike one prospect off the list
https://x.com/On3sports/status/1877434008809636051
Is he REALLY a prospect? I would not want him until day 3.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 02:47:54 PMStrike one prospect off the list
https://x.com/On3sports/status/1877434008809636051
As noted, I'm a big Ole Miss booster, and a group of us were notified that today Jan 9th, Jaxson Dart applied for a Waiver to come back one more year even though he's out of eligibility. The vandy kid did it and so he's going to try it. So there's an inside, inside scoop for you.
Justin Fields is not going to be talked about as a future all pro any time soon.
But two important areas he has over DJ:
He keeps his eyes up longer than DJ while scrambling away from pressure.
He's unafraid to throw the ball downfield.
He could develop into a starter BONUS! Or MORE LIKELY he's a decent bridge until we get the franchise QB.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 09, 2025, 09:57:57 PMAs noted, I'm a big Ole Miss booster, and a group of us were notified that today Jan 9th, Jaxson Dart applied for a Waiver to come back one more year even though he's out of eligibility. The vandy kid did it and so he's going to try it. So there's an inside, inside scoop for you.
Sounds like the same thing McCord did. What are their chances the league will grant their waivers?
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2025, 09:15:20 AMSounds like the same thing McCord did. What are their chances the league will grant their waivers?
Pretty high, but it's the same thing that Cam Ward did last year before choosing Miami. It's the new age of leverage, I can go to the NFl and get drafted in the 3rd round and make X or I can come back for a 5th year and you'll pay me how much? The Pavia kid at Vandrbilt has been a senior for the past 2 years and just got granted a waiver to play again next year lol.
12 of 14 QBs starting in the playoffs this year were 1st round picks.
The more I am hearing, the less optimistic I am that the Giants will find a franchise QB this offseason.
I guess the only avenue that has a realistic (but less than optimal) chance of acquiring a QB is to trade up (or one falls) and draft Ward or Sanders. This is a very risky move, as neither seems like an elite QB prospect, meaning their chances of success are probably less than 50/50 and if they fail, they will cost the first pick plus all the trade capital. To make things worse, the extra draft capital will hurt the overall talent on the team which will reduce the chances of successfully developing a QB.
I am troubled by Mara's comment about getting a QB being a priority, because this doesn't appear to be the year to solve a team's QB problem.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 10, 2025, 11:07:12 AMThe more I am hearing, the less optimistic I am that the Giants will find a franchise QB this offseason.
I guess the only avenue that has a realistic (but less than optimal) chance of acquiring a QB is to trade up (or one falls) and draft Ward or Sanders. This is a very risky move, as neither seems like an elite QB prospect, meaning their chances of success are probably less than 50/50 and if they fail, they will cost the first pick plus all the trade capital. To make things worse, the extra draft capital will hurt the overall talent on the team which will reduce the chances of successfully developing a QB.
I am troubled by Mara's comment about getting a QB being a priority, because this doesn't appear to be the year to solve a team's QB problem.
The whole thing is an absolute xxxx show caused by Mara's indecision and lack of divisiveness. Just understand that yes, they will have to get a QB. They will have to get two. Whether they are good, bad or average, we will find out. And then next year when they play what is, as of now, a brutal schedule, and they are done by Halloween, Mara will have to do what he avoided doing on Monday. My only hope, and really it's a fantasy, is that either Daboll just quits and takes a job at a college knowing he'll be gone next year or Mara finds how Schoen botched the free agency thing so bad he has to fire him in the next week or so. Of course neither will happen, but I can have my fantasies, can't I?
I still think the Giants should take Hunter. Trade back into he first using the second and fourth round pick and pick up Dart. Dart is every bit as good as Ward and Sanders. Honestly I think he is better than Sanders. And yes the Giants should pick up a veteran QB like Cousins someone that can allow Dart to step into the position without rushing him.
Quote from: Giantleap56 on January 10, 2025, 12:24:50 PMI still think the Giants should take Hunter. Trade back into he first using the second and fourth round pick and pick up Dart. Dart is every bit as good as Ward and Sanders. Honestly I think he is better than Sanders. And yes the Giants should pick up a veteran QB like Cousins someone that can allow Dart to step into the position without rushing him.
That's assuming Dart enters the draft. Jess (
@Jclayton92 ) has reported Dart is having second thoughts and may try and stay in school.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 07, 2025, 11:52:08 AMMatt,
I wasn't interested in Fields last season, but I am this season (using the "beggers can't be choosers" logic. Who do you think would be a realistic alternative to Fields that would give Schoen and Daboll a chance to put up a respectable record?
I'll take Fields only if Mike Tomlinson comes along. Daboll will make him look like trash.
Quote from: Giantleap56 on January 10, 2025, 01:05:23 PMI'll take Fields only if Mike Tomlinson comes along. Daboll will make him look like trash.
I won't disagree, but as one anonymous Giants player said, "It's like your only option is to blindly trust,"
At this point, there is nothing I can do. The decisions have been made, and all that I have left is to support the team and hope for the best.
https://x.com/PeteThamel/status/1877773682698817972
McCord officially declares for the draft
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gg9IhS4aQAAREVg?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Giantleap56 on January 10, 2025, 01:05:23 PMI'll take Fields only if Mike Tomlinson comes along. Daboll will make him look like trash.
Daboll made the Vikings' current third-string quarterback look serviceable in 2022, which was impressive in my opinion. Also, Fields' best season was 2022, during which he actually received MVP and AP votes. Did the great Matt Eberflus make him look serviceable? It seems like you and the other fans who predicted DJ would become a top-10 QB are now bashing Daboll for failing to make your predictions come true. Daboll is not responsible for making DJ look like trash; he looked like trash because he was an average QB...
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 10, 2025, 09:01:24 AMJustin Fields is not going to be talked about as a future all pro any time soon.
But two important areas he has over DJ:
He keeps his eyes up longer than DJ while scrambling away from pressure.
He's unafraid to throw the ball downfield.
He could develop into a starter BONUS! Or MORE LIKELY he's a decent bridge until we get the franchise QB.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Eli Manning was never all-pro and didnt exactly look like a world-beater his first few seasons.
Quote from: coggs on January 11, 2025, 09:49:32 PMEli Manning was never all-pro and didnt exactly look like a world-beater his first few seasons.
2x Super Bowl MVP. Perhaps we should keep Eli out of this Fields conversation
Another potential competitor in the QB market could be the Steelers. Will the Steelers be satisfied going back in 2025 with Russel Wilson?
It's worth listing all the teams in the market for a franchise QB
Jets
Steelers
Browns
Titans
POTENTIALLY the Colts
Raiders
Giants
Saints
POTENTIALLY the Rams
2025 free agent QBs
(https://preview.redd.it/heres-a-list-of-free-agent-quarterbacks-for-2025-which-of-v0-gdkhenxjukce1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ff024cd5a44ea7f0a5c6fc90c39be01872f9bf81)
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 07, 2025, 11:44:59 AMQB prospects with more football
College Playoffs
Howard OSU, Ewers Texas, Allar PSU (some rumors he might change his mind about entering the draft), and Leonard ND
Senior Bowl
Jaxson DartQB | Mississippi
Will HowardQB | Ohio State
Dillon GabrielQB | Oregon
Riley LeonardQB | Notre Dame
Tyler ShoughQB | Louisville
Shrine Bowl
Shedeur Sanders, Colorado
Kyle McCord, Syracuse
Tyler Shough, Louisville
Kurtis Rourke, Indiana
Who do you like most of the Senior Bowl guys?
Quote from: zbeaster on January 13, 2025, 01:20:58 PMWho do you like most of the Senior Bowl guys?
Welcome :greetings:
I am eager to see Dart in a more traditional QB role.
Beyond that, I am hoping that maybe Howard, Gabriel, or Leonard really shine and show some potential to be a franchise QB (it's a long shot, and obviously you need to consider more than just the Senior Bowl).
https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1878904437072437364
Miami paid 2 million for a 1 year rental of a broken qb in Beck. That's how ridiculous the NIL market is right now. Also Beck making his decision based on his girlfriend might be alarming to some.
In terms of Sanders and Ward, my feeling is this:
The Giants draft 3rd in what appears to be a two QB market and both teams ahead of them desperately (like the Giants) need a QB. I doubt either would trade with the Giants unless they have serious doubts about the abilities of Ward and/or Sanders. Neither will fall unless the Titans or Browns have serious doubts about the pair.
So, beyond the usual crapshoot that comes with drafting a QB, you would be drafting (3rd overall) a QB another team felt wasn't good enough. I would think that another team assessed and passed on the prospect would lower the chances of success should the Giants pick either of them.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 10:44:05 AMIn terms of Sanders and Ward, my feeling is this:
The Giants draft 3rd in what appears to be a two QB market and both teams ahead of them desperately (like the Giants) need a QB. I doubt either would trade with the Giants unless they have serious doubts about the abilities of Ward and/or Sanders. Neither will fall unless the Titans or Browns have serious doubts about the pair.
So, beyond the usual crapshoot that comes with drafting a QB, you would be drafting (3rd overall) a QB another team felt wasn't good enough. I would think that another team assessed and passed on the prospect would lower the chances of success should the Giants pick either of them.
Rich: Like I said previously, IMO the third pick is the place to be this year.
The possibilities: (1) both QB's are worthy (doubtful) and they will be gone; (2) Giants will show us how highly they think of one of them by moving up whatever the cost (unlikely); or (3) one or both QB is still be there, in which case the Giants can also pass them up and get a non-QB in this draft (which has three or four IMO can't-miss TRUE blue-chip prospects who are worthy of being taken in the top five of the draft).
Barring all those scenarios, there is sure to be a team who covets one of those non-QB's (needing a player to fill out their inside straight and make them a Super Bowl contender) who will offer us the moon to trade down.
Bob
PS. It's implied above but I agree that if either or both QBs are still there, the Giants SHOULD (and IMO are likely to) also ignore them UNLESS (the nightmare scenario - extremely unlikely) the two non-QB's they wanted most are both already gone. In that case they might re-evaluate not coming away without a QB as a consolation prize (however ill-advised some of us believe that might be).
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 10:44:05 AMIn terms of Sanders and Ward, my feeling is this:
The Giants draft 3rd in what appears to be a two QB market and both teams ahead of them desperately (like the Giants) need a QB. I doubt either would trade with the Giants unless they have serious doubts about the abilities of Ward and/or Sanders. Neither will fall unless the Titans or Browns have serious doubts about the pair.
So, beyond the usual crapshoot that comes with drafting a QB, you would be drafting (3rd overall) a QB another team felt wasn't good enough. I would think that another team assessed and passed on the prospect would lower the chances of success should the Giants pick either of them.
:-?? :-?? :-??
By that same reasoning, Bo Nix shouldn't have had the season he had since other teams that needed a QB assessed and passed on him.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 11:45:13 AM:-?? :-?? :-??
By that same reasoning, Bo Nix shouldn't have had the season he had since other teams that needed a QB assessed and passed on him.
Ahh, does the exception disprove the rule argument? Should teams be seeking out the 6th QB off the board because of the success of Nix, or was that more an aberration that could be attributed to a historically strong draft class and the excellent QB environment that Payton and the Broncos provide? It also might be worth noting that the only QB-needy team to pass on drafting a QB prior to the Broncos selecting Nix were our own NY Giants.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 11:50:47 AMAhh, does the exception disprove the rule argument? Should teams be seeking out the 6th QB off the board because of the success of Nix, or was that more an aberration that could be attributed to a historically strong draft class and the excellent QB environment that Payton and the Broncos provide? It also might be worth noting that the only QB-needy team to pass on drafting a QB prior to the Broncos selecting Nix were our own NY Giants.
There were 5, maybe 6, QB-needy teams that deemed Nix not to be worthy of their pick.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 11:54:06 AMThere were 5, maybe 6, QB-needy teams that deemed Nix not to be worthy of their pick.
Are you referring to the teams who drafted other QBs?
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 11:57:24 AMYes
I don't think the Commanders or even the Pats regret their picks. The Vikings QB got hurt, so I put them off to the side. The Bears drafted Caleb (not my favorite), but he was considered by many to be the most talented QB of the bunch. The only QB-needy teams who may regret passing on Nix would be NYG and the Falcons (pending the ultimate success of Penix). Of course, it's always worth remembering that QBs are not universal where you can plug them into any team, and they will play as well or develop as well as they did with another team.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 12:05:54 PMI don't think the Commanders or even the Pats regret their picks. The Vikings QB got hurt, so I put them off to the side. The Bears drafted Caleb (not my favorite), but he was considered by many to be the most talented QB of the bunch. The only QB-needy teams who may regret passing on Nix would be NYG and the Falcons (pending the ultimate success of Penix). Of course, it's always worth remembering that QBs are not universal where you can plug them into any team, and they will play as well or develop as well as they did with another team.
I'm not talking about regret. I was referring to your statement:
QuoteI would think that another team assessed and passed on the prospect would lower the chances of success should the Giants pick either of them.
Other teams assessed and passed on Nix but he still had a good season.
Quote from: T200 on January 14, 2025, 12:19:38 PMI'm not talking about regret. I was referring to your statement:
Other teams assessed and passed on Nix but he still had a good season.
This year's situation is there are currently only two QBs worthy of first-round selection. So your point about drafting a different QB, is not really relevant. The only thing relevant in this discussion is if teams with a major need at QB will pass on one of the only two prospects considered first-round worthy.
To the idea that we can recreate the Bo Nix development situation with the Giants and prove other teams wrong, I do not like my odds.
I suspect a more relevant situation may be when multiple QB-needy teams passed on Kenny Picketts, allowing the Steelers to draft him 20th overall.
Look, I am not suggesting that the staffs of the Browns and Titans (and presumably teams that potentially would trade up) are perfect and that having one fall to three means there is no chance the QB prospect will develop into an NFL franchise QB. I am merely suggesting that the events that are required to happen to allow the Giants to draft one of them would suggests the odds of success are lower than normal.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 12:05:54 PMI don't think the Commanders or even the Pats regret their picks. The Vikings QB got hurt, so I put them off to the side. The Bears drafted Caleb (not my favorite), but he was considered by many to be the most talented QB of the bunch. The only QB-needy teams who may regret passing on Nix would be NYG and the Falcons (pending the ultimate success of Penix). Of course, it's always worth remembering that QBs are not universal where you can plug them into any team, and they will play as well or develop as well as they did with another team.
Excellent point that I agree with.
Who is to say TEN/CLE pass on a QB due to schematic fit, and they wouldn't "plug in" well, but Giants might feel the opposite? If anything I'd consider that an increased chance of success.
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 14, 2025, 12:51:05 PMExcellent point that I agree with.
Who is to say TEN/CLE pass on a QB due to schematic fit, and they wouldn't "plug in" well, but Giants might feel the opposite? If anything I'd consider that an increased chance of success.
In light of the shortage of franchise QBs, and the success (or lack thereof) of teams lacking a franchise QB, do you consider it wise to pass on a QB you believe could be a franchise QB because he doesn't fit your scheme? Would it be wiser to adjust your scheme if you believe the QB can be successful in the right scheme?
As we have been talking about since at least the win over the Colts, it's not easy to find a QB prospect who you believe will be a franchise QB much less an elite QB.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 01:03:05 PMIn light of the shortage of franchise QBs, and the success (or lack thereof) of teams lacking a franchise QB, do you consider it wise to pass on a QB you believe could be a franchise QB because he doesn't fit your scheme? Would it be wiser to adjust your scheme if you believe the QB can be successful in the right scheme?
As we have been talking about since at least the win over the Colts, it's not easy to find a QB prospect who you believe will be a franchise QB much less an elite QB.
If a player isn't a fit, they aren't a fit. At that point you are putting a square peg in a round hole. Do you just dunp the other 20 something offensive players and replace them to match the scheme of the new QB? Has the coaching staff worked in that type of system before? Maybe they would all need to be gutted too for this hypothetical team.
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 14, 2025, 01:08:35 PMIf a player isn't a fit, they aren't a fit. At that point you are putting a square peg in a round hole. Do you just dunp the other 20 something offensive players and replace them to match the scheme of the new QB? Has the coaching staff worked in that type of system before? Maybe they would all need to be gutted too for this hypothetical team.
I think a prime example would be a QB like Milroe. Suppose the Giants believe they could develop him along the lines of Lamar Jackson. With Lamar Jackson, the offense needs to be adjusted to play to his strengths (especially early in his career). Would you be happy if Daboll had the team pass on Milroe (in this hypothetical, both Schoen and Daboll believe he could be a plus QB in the right system) because he doesn't want to run the type of system that would make Milroe and compelling franchise QB? If Daboll gets fired after this season, does that change your view on passing on a potential QB?
It's not like teams know they will get another bite at the QB apple next season. So it's do you draft a QB you believe can bring you a decade of success, with the only downside being you need to adjust your scheme or continue to flounder, hoping that in the near future (hopefully), the team might be in a position to draft a potential franchise QB who fits the scheme the team currently (as long as the coach is there)runs,
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 10:44:05 AMIn terms of Sanders and Ward, my feeling is this:
The Giants draft 3rd in what appears to be a two QB market and both teams ahead of them desperately (like the Giants) need a QB. I doubt either would trade with the Giants unless they have serious doubts about the abilities of Ward and/or Sanders. Neither will fall unless the Titans or Browns have serious doubts about the pair.
So, beyond the usual crapshoot that comes with drafting a QB, you would be drafting (3rd overall) a QB another team felt wasn't good enough. I would think that another team assessed and passed on the prospect would lower the chances of success should the Giants pick either of them.
I'm not certain the teams ahead of us take a qb.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 14, 2025, 01:24:26 PMI'm not certain the teams ahead of us take a qb.
J: Another angle on your point, which I agree with, is that one or both above us trade down for more picks, knowing that one or the other QB will still be there at least until Pick Seven (IMO).
Along this same line of thinking, it is absolutely crucial for the Giants to appear VERY interested in both QB's (I'm hoping and assuming they're not interested in either with Pick Three). Keeping that secret will produce the result I'm most hoping for... both teams ahead of us stay put and pick QB's.
By the way, someone just asked me, so I'll ask you: if you had to take either Graham (Michigan) or Hunter (Colorado) which player is better for the Giants, considering all the details of their current situation?
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 14, 2025, 01:50:24 PMJ: Another angle on your point, which I agree with, is that one or both above us trade down for more picks, knowing that one or the other QB will still be there at least until Pick Seven (IMO).
Along this same line of thinking, it is absolutely crucial for the Giants to appear VERY interested in both QB's (I'm hoping and assuming they're not interested in either with Pick Three). Keeping that secret will produce the result I'm most hoping for... both teams ahead of us stay put and pick QB's.
By the way, someone just asked me, so I'll ask you: if you had to take either Graham (Michigan) or Hunter (Colorado) which player is better for the Giants, considering all the details of their current situation?
Bob
I take Hunter as I think it's more of a need currently filling CB1 and WR2. If I'm being honest though I take Johnson before Hunter or Graham. I think Graham is a luxury with the invest we already have in Lawrence, Burns, and thibs. I think we can get a great nt/dt in the 2nd.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 14, 2025, 02:16:30 PMI think we can get a great nt/dt in the 2nd.
J: You're right, but there are few (maybe none) like Graham. And playing at Michigan, no one faced a higher level of competition this past season than the Michigan group. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 14, 2025, 02:34:24 PMJ: You're right, but there are few (maybe none) like Graham. And playing at Michigan, no one faced a higher level of competition this past season than the Michigan group. Bob
I'd rather have Deone Walker in Round 2.
https://x.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1879252882782028229
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 14, 2025, 02:34:24 PMJ: You're right, but there are few (maybe none) like Graham. And playing at Michigan, no one faced a higher level of competition this past season than the Michigan group. Bob
I think a Walter nolen or Alfred Collins in the 2nd would be solid value if you get a will Johnson or hunter in the 1st.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 14, 2025, 12:29:51 PMThis year's situation is there are currently only two QBs worthy of first-round selection. So your point about drafting a different QB, is not really relevant. The only thing relevant in this discussion is if teams with a major need at QB will pass on one of the only two prospects considered first-round worthy.
To the idea that we can recreate the Bo Nix development situation with the Giants and prove other teams wrong, I do not like my odds.
I suspect a more relevant situation may be when multiple QB-needy teams passed on Kenny Picketts, allowing the Steelers to draft him 20th overall.
Look, I am not suggesting that the staffs of the Browns and Titans (and presumably teams that potentially would trade up) are perfect and that having one fall to three means there is no chance the QB prospect will develop into an NFL franchise QB. I am merely suggesting that the events that are required to happen to allow the Giants to draft one of them would suggests the odds of success are lower than normal.
I think you're missing what I'm responding to.
Let's just move on.
I came across some pretty good scouting reports. I can't speak to the author's credentials, but the reports (I looked at some of his last year reports that seemed pretty on point) seem well done, and are certainly detailed. Here are the ones he has done so far.
Sanders:
https://substack.com/home/post/p-154101339
Ward:
https://substack.com/home/post/p-153788222
Dart:
https://backseatscout.substack.com/p/2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-scouting-8fc
You can also check him out on Reddit
https://old.reddit.com/user/Backseat_Scout/submitted/#res:ner-page=6
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 14, 2025, 02:36:00 PMI'd rather have Deone Walker in Round 2.
Mr G: I am not downgrading the level of SEC competition, but Michigan had a very tough schedule too.
So you think Walker in the 2nd is a better way to spend our first two picks than taking Graham in round 1.
OK, that can make sense with a good pick in round 1. Which player are you hoping for most in round 1?
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 14, 2025, 03:36:46 PMMr G: I am not downgrading the level of SEC competition, but Michigan had a very tough schedule too.
So you think Walker in the 2nd is a better way to spend our first two picks than taking Graham in round 1.
OK, that can make sense with a good pick in round 1. Which player are you hoping for most in round 1?
Bob
If it is not a QB, I would say Will Johnson, I think he is a better pure corner to Hunter and has better size.
Travis Hunter would be my second choice.
Trade down options I would like: Josh Simmons, Tre Harris, Trey Amos
Round 2 other guys I'd be looking at: Maxwell Hairston, Jaxson Dart, Tate Ratledge, Donovan Ezeiruaku, Josaiah Stewart
Adding Will Johnson + Deone Walker as a combo to this defense would be nasty.
Walkers tape popped a lot more as a sophomore than it did this year. That may be because the Kentucky team got raided but yeah Walkers tape was better as a sophomore while Alfred Collins came out of nowhere this year and blew up. While Nolen was the number 1 transfer prospect, number 1 high school recruit etc his numbers don't pop but he's the definition of a true disruptor that makes everyone around him elite. He got the 3 other dlinemen on his line paid/drafted this year.
Also is it just me or does the Giants Chat sport youtube channel always do daily videos that seem to be picked from our threads.
Former GM talks QB prospects
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 14, 2025, 02:36:00 PMI'd rather have Deone Walker in Round 2.
This is where the high stakes poker comes into play. On one hand you can say Graham because you think he is the best player on the board. However, on the other you can say you want Johnson (for example) because you feel you can get Walker in the 2nd round and the drop-off from Graham to Walker is not as great as the drop-off from Johnson to say Rivel or Everette. Or for the math types, Johnson+Walker > Graham + Rivel.
One prospect Ric Spielman says is impressing him lately is ND's Riley Leonard. He has been impressed by what he has seen from him in the playoffs.