What are your expectations for Banks moving forward? What are his flaws/problems? Are they fixable?
https://nypost.com/2025/01/08/sports/giants-deonte-banks-facing-key-make-or-break-third-season/
Good question
If we miss out on QB I expect us to get Travis Hunter.... I expect them to name Banks CB1 at start of season...but if struggles I see Hunter moving there and shadowing WR1's and Banks being CB2 .... which I think would benefit him
In people's opinions, did Banks regress this year? Or just not make an improvement?
Was the change of DC bad for him? More zone vs man?
Felt like we saw flashes in the rookie season albeit not consistent or overwhelming
Quote from: killarich on January 09, 2025, 09:01:09 AMIf we miss out on QB I expect us to get Travis Hunter.... I expect them to name Banks CB1 at start of season...but if struggles I see Hunter moving there and shadowing WR1's and Banks being CB2 .... which I think would benefit him
Travis could plug a hole and a half. He could solve the need for a number one CB while also providing another quality receiving target to go along with Nabers, at least on a part-time basis.
There would IMO be no conflict if the Giants take Hunter.
The two men mostly played on opposite sides of the field in college.
In the NFL, of course, you do what the game plan demands, but I could easily see them on the same team with no ego problems, and (rather) with the type of healthy competition you need to build a dominant defense.
Bob
PS. By the way, the same is true if they were to select Michigan's all-world corner back (I keep referring to Will Johnson like that because his name is not as distinctive as many players nowadays, and he's not nearly as well-known to those who don't follow college ball).
Banks needs to make his own business decision this offseason.
Men make an impact and become all pros
Boys also make an impact and end up unemployed.
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In my opinion, the biggest issue for Banks is that he doesn't seem to be able to play the ball well. When scouting CBs we tend to focus on their speed and their ability to keep up with the receiver he is covering. The ability to know when to get your head around and then being able to locate the ball and figure out its trajectory quickly is also vital. That is the area that Banks seems to be lacking. I am not sure how much a CB can train to improve that skill.
I'm not just worried about Banks. I'm worried for the entire last years draft class because the Giants don't develop talent well. All the players do is regress after their rookie seasons.
Quote from: Giantleap56 on January 09, 2025, 09:47:46 AMI'm not just worried about Banks. I'm worried for the entire last years draft class because the Giants don't develop talent well. All the players do is regress after their rookie seasons.
Years ago, I met "Marty from Albany". At one time, he was a bit of a pseudo-fan/journalist who covered the team in training camp back when they held it up in Albany. He posted on BBI but was known to do some work for Pat Traina. We got to talking one day. He made a point to me that after a player's rookie season, there is a year of game tape that is then broken down by the best football minds on the planet looking for weaknesses and aspects to exploit. Up until the NFL, that really doesn't happen to them.
That is why you often see a player struggle in year two. The good ones counter what is done to them, and the limited ones regress.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 09:41:00 AMIn my opinion, the biggest issue for Banks is that he doesn't seem to be able to play the ball well. When scouting CBs we tend to focus on their speed and their ability to keep up with the receiver he is covering. The ability to know when to get your head around and then being able to locate the ball and figure out its trajectory quickly is also vital. That is the area that Banks seems to be lacking. I am not sure how much a CB can train to improve that skill.
Rich: You know I don't "think defense" a lot, but my impression (for what it's worth) is he should stay on the defensive left side of the field. The fact that they took him in the first round does not automatically make him a "shut-down" corner who follows the opponent's best guy around. Forgotten (just like with the case of Thibodeaux) is the run-game aspect. Banks is much better playing the run from the defensive left side, IMO. I don't know why. All I know is some players play better on one side of the field. That doesn't mean he wasn't worth the first-round pick. It just means he's not as versatile as either of the two corner backs who are likely to be there for the Giants in round one. Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2025, 09:55:04 AMYears ago, I met "Marty from Albany". At one time, he was a bit of a pseudo-fan/journalist who covered the team in training camp back when they held it up in Albany. He posted on BBI but was known to do some work for Pat Traina. We got to talking one day. He made a point to me that after a player's rookie season, there is a year of game tape that is then broken down by the best football minds on the planet looking for weaknesses and aspects to exploit. Up until the NFL, that really doesn't happen to them.
That is why you often see a player struggle in year two. The good ones counter what is done to them, and the limited ones regress.
Rich,
I agree with your point and I think its most visible with QBs. At the same time I do wonder about the coordinator change. Again, when we see young QB go through a coordinator change we almost always (There are some exceptions) see struggles. Its tough to truly grow when you are going back steps to learn new systems.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 09, 2025, 10:01:11 AMRich,
I agree with your point and I think its most visible with QBs. At the same time I do wonder about the coordinator change. Again, when we see young QB go through a coordinator change we almost always (There are some exceptions) see struggles. Its tough to truly grow when you are going back steps to learn new systems.
Anytime you change coordinators and usually defensive systems, you will always suffer (to some degree) the square peg in a round hole syndrome.
I honestly feel Bowen just was not a good fit for the personnel that we had overall, alot of players regressed from last year when they were on the field.
Unfortunately I see him as a #2 most likely. I do not think he will be able to consistently cover the #1 guy on some teams, so getting another guy and some depth will be critical.
But overall, a DC who can properly utilize the talent on the defensive side (yes we do have talent here), is going to be most important. I don't want Bowen to return. Maybe with a new DC he can be a #1 who knows, rookie year was promising.
Daboll has several other guys he wanted first, but the other teams blocked their interview requests, which shows me that the Giants intitially were looking in the right places.
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 09, 2025, 10:12:36 AMI honestly feel Bowen just was not a good fit for the personnel that we had overall, alot of players regressed from last year when they were on the field.
Unfortunately I see him as a #2 most likely. I do not think he will be able to consistently cover the #1 guy on some teams, so getting another guy and some depth will be critical.
But overall, a DC who can properly utilize the talent on the defensive side (yes we do have talent here), is going to be most important. I don't want Bowen to return. Maybe with a new DC he can be a #1 who knows, rookie year was promising.
Daboll has several other guys he wanted first, but the other teams blocked their interview requests, which shows me that the Giants intitially were looking in the right places.
The Giants had 2 ST coordinator interview requests denied, and one DC interview request denied. I believe two other DC targets took jobs with other teams.
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 09, 2025, 10:12:36 AMI honestly feel Bowen just was not a good fit for the personnel that we had overall, alot of players regressed from last year when they were on the field.
Unfortunately I see him as a #2 most likely. I do not think he will be able to consistently cover the #1 guy on some teams, so getting another guy and some depth will be critical.
But overall, a DC who can properly utilize the talent on the defensive side (yes we do have talent here), is going to be most important. I don't want Bowen to return. Maybe with a new DC he can be a #1 who knows, rookie year was promising.
Daboll has several other guys he wanted first, but the other teams blocked their interview requests, which shows me that the Giants intitially were looking in the right places.
Gap: This is a really good post and it covers a lot of topics, all squeezed into a very small space, and I agree with each and every one. My only quibble (and you may agree with this) is that Banks was worth a first-round pick even though he may only be a #2 CB, but IMO he's as good a run defender as any #1 CB and perhaps better than most. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 09, 2025, 10:20:26 AMGap: This is a really good post and it covers a lot of topics, all squeezed into a very small space, and I agree with each and every one. My only quibble (and you may agree with this) is that Banks was worth a first-round pick even though he may only be a #2 CB, but IMO he's as good a run defender as any #1 QB and perhaps better than most. Bob
As long as he plays well, I'm fine with the pick regardless of depth chart status. He is a talented player.
My main gripe is I'm not sure he needed to be traded up a spot for.
Quote from: MrGap92 on January 09, 2025, 10:34:22 AMAs long as he plays well, I'm fine with the pick regardless of depth chart status. He is a talented player.
My main gripe is I'm not sure he needed to be traded up a spot for.
I hear you, but after getting burned several times (usually by the Eagles) in prior years, I can't blame the Giants for being overly cautious. For example, Davonte Smith should have been a Giant. Bob
Quote from: killarich on January 09, 2025, 09:01:09 AMIf we miss out on QB I expect us to get Travis Hunter.... I expect them to name Banks CB1 at start of season...but if struggles I see Hunter moving there and shadowing WR1's and Banks being CB2 .... which I think would benefit him
i think this is the best scenario for us. sorry but sanders or ward are not the answer for a regime that is TEETERING. if they go 1,2.. you have to take hunter. from everything i've read, he's THAT good. takes a lot of pressure off banks (who i think can get back to decent form). and we have basically zero depth after that outside of dru phillips who is pretty good, but can he keep it up? If we had all 3, thats an extremely solid cb room. Plus it leaves a little room for some snaps at WR for hunter.
but to the original point, i think banks, and the whole team, could benefit from a little winning. you hate to see a guy mail it in because the team sucks, but you can hardly blame him. winning cures all.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on January 09, 2025, 10:59:21 AMdru phillips who is pretty good, but can he keep it up? If we had all 3, thats an extremely solid cb room. Plus it leaves a little room for some snaps at WR for hunter.
B-one: I believe not only can Phillips keep it up, he's going to be an excellent slot man real soon. He was IMO a very underrated draft pick (must stay healthy).
Snaps at WR for Hunter: there will be at least a small package for him, but when they see how good he is I don't know if they'll be able to keep him off the field.
One thing: he is not a home run hitter... he is a POSSESSION receiver (with big-play potential. That's very rare. He excels at using his football knowledge (which IMO is exceptional) to get open against zone, and once he gets the ball he is a serious threat to take it all the way, because he seems to know where all of the defenders will be, including those on the other side of the field. He has the potential to be a unicorn on offense and a stalwart on defense.
Bob
Quote from: B1GBLUE on January 09, 2025, 10:59:21 AMi think this is the best scenario for us. sorry but sanders or ward are not the answer for a regime that is TEETERING. if they go 1,2.. you have to take hunter. from everything i've read, he's THAT good. takes a lot of pressure off banks (who i think can get back to decent form). and we have basically zero depth after that outside of dru phillips who is pretty good, but can he keep it up? If we had all 3, thats an extremely solid cb room. Plus it leaves a little room for some snaps at WR for hunter.
My thought lately is what if Ward and Hunter go 1/2. I'm not a Sanders fan, so in that case I'd rather see them going non-QB at 3. CB Johnson? DT Graham? Edge Carter? Any of those positions would fill a need. Trading back, if a partner can be found, might also make sense with a team as devoid of talent as are the Giants. I guess they will be plenty of threads on this in the coming weeks and months.
Quote from: Sem on January 09, 2025, 11:31:05 AMMy thought lately is what if Ward and Hunter go 1/2. I'm not a Sanders fan, so in that case I'd rather see them going non-QB at 3. CB Johnson? DT Graham? Edge Carter? Any of those positions would fill a need. Trading back, if a partner can be found, might also make sense with a team as devoid of talent as are the Giants. I guess they will be plenty of threads on this in the coming weeks and months.
S: No matter how you slice it, the Giants will get a blue-chip prospect in this draft unless they want to or decide to trade down. They can always take a shot a QB in a later round or even trade up to the bottom of the 1st for a guy they really like. Until draft day, I'll be biting my nails hoping both QB's are gone, because if one or both are there, I believe they will be under considerable pressure to nose their noses and take a QB. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 09, 2025, 11:41:37 AMS: No matter how you slice it, the Giants will get a blue-chip prospect in this draft unless they want to or decide to trade down. They can always take a shot a QB in a later round or even trade up to the bottom of the 1st for a guy they really like. Until draft day, I'll be biting my nails hoping both QB's are gone, because if one or both are there, I believe they will be under considerable pressure to nose their noses and take a QB. Bob
Bob,
what are your thoughts on Abdul Carter? I think he is going to be great at the next level. I know you watch Penn St and wanted to get your take.
Hope he shows up big tonight.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 09, 2025, 11:43:36 AMBob,
what are your thoughts on Abdul Carter? I think he is going to be great at the next level. I know you watch Penn St and wanted to get your take.
Hope he shows up big tonight.
uconn: As for tonight, Carter is injured. I suspect it will affect his play tonight, but he is true gamer. He'll be out there hiding it, but you'll be able to tell by how often (if ever) they take him out of the game.
Most people have him as a top five pick and they are correct. He is a blue-chip prospect. Will he be the "next [fill-in-the-blank]? I don't know. He is a true Swiss-army knife who can play inside, outside and at linebacker in the NFL depending on who's running the defense.
Is he better than (for example) Micah Parsons? Some say yes, but I say no, only because Parsons' accomplishments so far have been so very good. Is he as good? Probably. For the Giants, it may come down to where they think they need the most help rather than who's left.
In such cases, and ASSUMING both QB's are gone by Pick Three (I'm praying hard for that to happen) there is a school of thought that you "punt" and trade down to about five or six or maybe even seven because the team has so many holes. There are IMO four or five can't-miss players and, ideally, you want to have a choice of at least TWO of them.
On the other hand, it's likely they'll really fall in love with one of the non-QB's and just take him at Pick Three. In my experience (oy!) it's the "Giants thing to do." lol
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 09, 2025, 11:24:59 AMB-one: I believe not only can Phillips keep it up, he's going to be an excellent slot man real soon. He was IMO a very underrated draft pick (must stay healthy).
Snaps at WR for Hunter: there will be at least a small package for him, but when they see how good he is I don't know if they'll be able to keep him off the field.
One thing: he is not a home run hitter... he is a POSSESSION receiver (with big-play potential. That's very rare. He excels at using his football knowledge (which IMO is exceptional) to get open against zone, and once he gets the ball he is a serious threat to take it all the way, because he seems to know where all of the defenders will be, including those on the other side of the field. He has the potential to be a unicorn on offense and a stalwart on defense.
Bob
Not a bad problem to have considering he'd basically instantly be cb1 and wr2. I would start him on D and work him into the O. If he winds up being THAT good on O, man, that's a good problem to have. I can't see him playing both sides very much, but if there's certain matchups that week.. gah the possibilities are pretty exciting.
I'd love to get Hunter, and sign Reed/Adebo in FA then have 2 elite corners with Phillip in the slot.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 09, 2025, 03:09:59 PMI'd love to get Hunter, and sign Reed/Adebo in FA then have 2 elite corners with Phillip in the slot.
I'd love Hunter too; however, I don't believe Tenn or the Raiders will be dumb enough not to pick him...
Quote from: kingm56 on January 09, 2025, 04:18:04 PMI'd love Hunter too; however, I don't believe Tenn or the Raiders will be dumb enough not to pick him...
If hunter is taken then I'm going Abdul Carter, and taking a Trey Amos at the top of the 2nd. I think Amos be better than Johnson in the NFL.
A CB1 is more important to the Giants than a WR2 as Hunter likely would be 2 behind Nabers but 1 versus Deonte Banks. Therefore Hunter has to play CB.
I think the problem is that he may be WR1 in this draft but he is not CB1 in this draft as that is Johnson.
If you draft Johnson, he slots in immediately as CB1. What if Hunter says I want to play equally on O and D and Giants do not want to do that? I am not suggesting he's a troublemaker at all but he may be pretty committed to wanting to do that.
I don't want them to draft for need, but if they are going to go defense with the 1st and 2nd pick I hope they have those defensive players rated higher by a significant margin.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 09, 2025, 06:06:22 PMIf hunter is taken then I'm going Abdul Carter, and taking a Trey Amos at the top of the 2nd. I think Amos be better than Johnson in the NFL.
Exactly what I'm thinking too, Jess. I think you and I are aligned on a bridge QB this season, or a 2d round gamble.
I love Carter's athleticism! I won't be upset with that pick. In fact, the only pick that would bother me is Ward or Sanders.