Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 24, 2022, 04:30:56 PMHis placement was erratic early and then he played an outstanding game.   A game where he had poor pass protection and his receivers were not helping him.   Your right though, they put it on Jones and he passed the test

Jones clearly missed wide open reads, and had bad placement all game but it was still one of his better games. Outside of 3 plays the line protected well all game and the wrs caught balls. Anything to support your narrative though right Rich? You think Barkley running it on 4th and 2 for a Td was putting it on Jones then by all means. Not sure how you can pass a test and lose a game but sure.

I actually prefer this Jones game than any he's played all season, with the start to Jacksonville being a close 2nd. His placement was extremely erratic all day throwing high and behind. After the first drive were he was short of the sticks on the 3rd down throw at least he was throwing beyond the sticks and attempting to attack. It's the worst pass defense in the league, but I'd rather us play like this every game instead of being conservative so at least we have a definitive answer one way or another.

3 pages to answer a multiple choice question is something I've personally never seen before lol.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 23, 2022, 04:58:41 PMI know we're not creating more Daniel Jones threads (which I am fully supportive of), so I'll ask this question here:


Very simply, where do you most closely fit in to these three categories regarding Daniel Jones' future on the Giants?


A. I want Jones back, period. I am in favor of paying whatever it takes to keep him here, and I want him to be here long term. I view him as a franchise QB. He is the guy.

B. I would be happy to have Jones back, but only up to a certain price, and I only want to be committed for a relatively small number of years.

C. I don't want Jones back next year, period. It's time to move in another direction.

I expect many who respond to classify themselves in the "B" group. If so, can you please clearly indicate what your absolute limit would be, both in terms of AAV and in terms of total years of the contract?

I think we have a lot of back and forth on Jones and a lot of arguing. There is a lot of noise. With Jones' fourth year just about over (as far as the regular season), how about folks put down on paper where they actually stand in terms of what THEY want regarding his future? And not just trying to predict what actually WILL happen. What would you actually like to see happen?

Thanks.

Im content riding with one of the several FA Qbs for cheap or Tyrod for a couple of seasons until we find our guy. I'll go B, with a 1 year 8 million dollar deal with a team option for a 2nd year at 9 million. So technically 2 year 17 million with an opt out for the Giants after this coming season. The 2 year 17 is in line with his production and what other Qbs with his production have made in the open market. With up to 12 teams needing Qbs it could inflate Jones price, inwhich case I'm comfortable with him walking and taking a Brisset, Tyrod, Minshew, or Mayfield for a year until we get our guy.

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 23, 2022, 03:18:31 PMBelieve what you will. I am placing DJs return at like 80-85% (barring some unforeseen circumstance as mentioned above)

When you make a prediction the exact opposite tends to happen. So keep making them.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 23, 2022, 12:10:47 PMThat's way too much to pay a game manager even a really good one.  Problem is and I saw this somewhere the other day is that when it comes to QB's salaries post rookie contract there really isn't a middle ground for their salaries.  There are the $30+ million salaries that make up the top 10+ and the rest are $15 million and below.

That's the problem right there, I don't think Jones is a superstar but I don't think he's garbage either. I think he's ok but not for 20 or 30 million a year. Tannehill got a 4yr 118 million and because of that aav of 29 million a year coupled with Henry's contract, those two single handedly handicapped the Titans. We got Adoree because of that, and the Eagles got AJ Brown, they lost most of their home grown talent on defense and offense because of a contract for a great RB and decent QB.

https://youtu.be/-YuJy-RgKvs

Dan Orlovsky saying Jones has done enough to come back and compete next season. That he doesn't know if he's the starter but he's done enough to be given a chance to compete.

Article from a month ago, specifically before the Dallas Loss. Executives polled seemed split, but even those wanting him retained only suggested a 1 year deal, and the other suggested to not retain him at all because he lacks the ability to win in dropback passing situations.

"The franchise tag for a quarterback is estimated at $31.5 million next season, according to the salary cap site Over the Cap. Jones made under $4 million this year, and five quarterbacks -- Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Kyler Murray and Derek Carr -- are currently slated to make over $31 million next season".

"The Giants could absorb the hefty salary next year, with ample salary-cap space. But they also have to figure out a solution for Barkley, who seems like a prime candidate for the franchise tag in back-to-back years. The franchise tag for a running back is estimated to be in the $10-12 million range".

"That would leave the Giants needing to find a middle ground with Jones or turn to backup Tyrod Taylor for a much more manageable $5.5 million".

"One NFC general manager figured the Giants' "best option'' would be to re-sign Jones this offseason. Another executive with a potential NFC playoff team said there is "no way" he would build around the 2019 No. 6 overall pick, citing what he considered an inability to win in traditional drop-back situations, and the Giants' success in Daboll's scaled-back offense".

"An NFL executive with experience negotiating contracts suggested a one-year deal for midlevel money would make the most sense for both parties. Something in the $15 million to $20 million range".

"That is assuming there won't be a big, long-term deal out there for Jones".

"He's a bridge to the real future starter," the executive said.

"Another source pointed to the two-year, $28 million contract ($21 million guaranteed) Jameis Winston signed with the New Orleans Saints this past offseason as an example of what might work with Jones".

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35077485/what-does-daniel-jones-need-prove-part-giants-future

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 23, 2022, 10:27:46 AMShannon Sharpe as many know is a 'shock jock' and those ESPN boys LOVE stirring the NY pot. That opinion means quite little. I'll take the multitude of more trustworthy analysts and guys that watch this team a ton more closely than what is quite likely a shock jock peripheral opinion.

He doesn't work for ESPN and is a hall of fame TE... Shock Jock? You guys will take Lawrence Tynes the former kickers thoughts on DJ but not one of the greatest TEs to ever play. Got it, kinda ridiculous though.

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 23, 2022, 12:29:13 AMAnd when he gets better receivers (not guys we as fans have to work hard to come up with stats to make them look like they are somehow high end receivers) he will likely make the jump up in passing stats much like Josh Allen, Tua, Hurts, Lawrence all did.

Jones is nowhere in those guys league. It's just fictional at this point.

Football outsiders DYAR metric:

Slayton 31 (15,16 on some metrics)
James 39
Robinson 32 in the under 50 catches

2 Wrs in the top 40 DYAR is hardly horrible Wrs. Above average/average Mayne but not as horrible as people think. If Robinson was still playing he'd rank 32nd so that would be 3 Wrs I'm the top 40. You also have to look at our attempts vs other teams, if we passed more obviously their numbers would be better but to act like they are the worst in the league is a stretch.

Plus Bellinger is 16th DYAR for TEs even after missing several games.

Vienna Blood- German detective show where I psychologist and Police officer team up to solve crimes. Was absolutely fantastic period crime show were each episode is a new murder. 3-4 seasons.

The Recruit Netflix- Think the Rokkie show on Cable TV but for the CIA. Young recruit/legal attache breaking into the job of spying.

Jack Ryan season 3- watched every episode in one sitting.

CB strike, now just called Strike. Is a war veteran turned private investigator with his female partner that solve crimes. The lady that writes the Harry Potter books wrote the books these 4 seasons are based on and its phenomenal.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 04:25:29 PMYou'd have to do that with every QB in the league and when you do that with the number of athletic QBs in the league I don't think it helps Jones in that regard with where he ranks when you combine the passing and rushing yards for QBs.  I could be wrong but don't think it does.

The idea that it's the worst receiving corps in the league is an opinion.  We don't know exactly why the Giants aren't throwing it all over the field.  It could be Jones, the O-Line, Receivers or a combination of all three.

Whatever the case Jones has proven to be an extremely efficient game manager.  And as you pointed out it's helped the Giants get to being 8-5-1.

See that's part of the problem, before the season started daboll wanted Jones to "rip it" "Air it out and attack" and we've yet to see any of that from a throwing perspective. So we're in year 4 with Jones and still don't know if he can thrive in a traditional dropback offense. Just a month ago Gms and executives around the league were quoted saying that he shouldn't be retained because of his inability to win in throwing situations, even in the scaled back nontraditional offense Daboll and Kafka had to install. So if other executives think that, then it's just curious why daboll and Co went away from the rip it, attack, and went to a nontraditional offense. Because what we are left with is just more of the same instead of seeing that he can really attack, force the ball down field, sustain multiple drives through the air, and win putting up points that way.

Quote from: T200 on December 22, 2022, 02:39:59 PMI'm pleased with his performance this year, all things offense considered. I'm fine with his being a game manager, making good decisions (for the most part) and his legs aren't to be dismissed.

Aside from limiting the turnovers, my biggest question mark for him this season was his health. He checked that box for me.

Im even ok with numbers if we're not acting like he's the end all be all or that he's done some miraculous feat warranting 30 million a year. His passing Imo is meh, it's not good enough, and if we are looking at Jones as a stop gap to us finding the answer I'm 150% on board with that. I'm just not ok with acting like he's the long term answer when he's clearly not if that makes sense.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 22, 2022, 02:16:42 PMYou have to add in his rushing yards and TD's and 1st downs running. He may wind up with near 4000 yards total. As of now he only has 4 Interceptions and has cut down considerably in turnovers. So Rushing and YAC is a career high. 3300 passing and that's also a CH. 66% completion % and that's a CH. QR 90.5 and QBR 57.1 and those are CH's.

I see that Ed, and completely get that, it's a valid point. His rushing has been really good this season, but as a passer in my opinion nothing has changed. He has not progressed as a thrower of the football this season and even regressed. He doesn't get as many opportunities to throw it and so his efficiency and turnovers are a positive but overall his passing as a whole is secerly lackluster.