Big Blue Huddle

I find it perplexing that people get as bent out of shape as they do about "Jones critics", but these same folks seem perfectly fine to start (or participate in) thread after thread about how we have the worst receivers in the league, how pathetic our blocking is, and how our play-calling and coaches in general are terrible (moreso in past years on the latter point but very common over the years).

Why is criticism only a problem for these folks when it happens to be about Daniel Jones? Why is it not only not a problem with other players and members of this organization, but in fact it seems to be welcomed, encouraged, and repeated over and over again? But yet if anyone puts anything non-positive about Jones, that person is a "hater", PMs get sent by people who can't seem to handle it, and personal attacks frequently ensue?

It's all rather odd, but any fair and objective observation of all of this would have to conclude that, for some reason, people are just highly sensitive about our QB in particular and get visibly offended (or at least put off) if basically not every other member joins in a chorus of cheerleading and is completely unwilling to or incapable of of every finding even a modicum of fault in him as a player.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 17, 2022, 11:16:48 AMI can provide links to SEVERAL post over this season where those of us who believe DJ is #12 to #20 QB had good, or great games; in contrast, I've never seem a post from the "pro Jones" group criticizing him.  Thus, the notion of naturality is humorous and not taken seriously.

I also find it odd you believe posting objectionable data to support ones position is negative.  If you review the Jones threads, there are few "JONES SUCKS" posts. Instead, there are 'I disagree, his the objectionable data that supports my position type posts.'  The latter should be viewed as a positive on a board that claims to consist of the most 'informed fans.' You have to risk offending, and being offended, in order to gain true knowledge...

I also find it houmous that it's considered positive to attack our OL and WRs, as long as you're defending Jones.

You kind of just proved my point.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 17, 2022, 11:46:08 AMYou kind of just proved my point.

And you proved mine...

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 17, 2022, 11:40:13 AMI find it perplexing that people get as bent out of shape as they do about "Jones critics", but these same folks seem perfectly fine to start (or participate in) thread after thread about how we have the worst receivers in the league, how pathetic our blocking is, and how our play-calling and coaches in general are terrible (moreso in past years on the latter point but very common over the years).

Why is criticism only a problem for these folks when it happens to be about Daniel Jones? Why is it not only not a problem with other players and members of this organization, but in fact it seems to be welcomed, encouraged, and repeated over and over again? But yet if anyone puts anything non-positive about Jones, that person is a "hater", PMs get sent by people who can't seem to handle it, and personal attacks frequently ensue?

It's all rather odd, but any fair and objective observation of all of this would have to conclude that, for some reason, people are just highly sensitive about our QB in particular and get visibly offended (or at least put off) if basically not every other member joins in a chorus of cheerleading and is completely unwilling to or incapable of of every finding even a modicum of fault in him as a player.

People are entitled to their opinions and we're not going to change each other's minds but the misrepresentation of someone else's position as hating Jones because they believe he's a middle of the road QB.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 17, 2022, 12:27:13 PMPeople are entitled to their opinions and we're not going to change each other's minds but the misrepresentation of someone else's position as hating Jones because they believe he's a middle of the road QB.

Some of us (@DaveBrown) actually believe he's better than average...top 1/3 actually. Yet, some of us are keenly aware the game has dramatically changed over the last decade; today, it's critical to have a top 12 QB to remain competitive.  It's the hypocrisy that's simply unfair; to that point, it's considered negative to post facts pertaining to the QB; yet, it's considered positive to bash the coaches, oline, WRs and even Barkly when defending the QB.  Objective data is used to support the notion our WRs stink, while simultaneously considered 'negative' if used to highlight the fallacies of the QB.     

I've actually been very consistent on Jones. I have said for a long time (well over a year now and more like 2-3 years) that I believe him to likely be a middle of the road starter. That is to say decent, but not a guy for whom you break the bank or around whom you build a team for the long haul.

So far this year, he is 15th in QB rating, 14th in QBR, 21st in DYAR, and his PFF grade is a middling 70.1.

Suffice to say my view on this player is unchanged from what it has been for a while now. My eyes tell me he is middle of the road, and the numbers do too.

Yeah I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said in regards to these DJ debates.

Most who are "anti Jones" don't think he sucks or is a bad QB. We just think he is a mid tier average QB, you can do alot better, and you can do alot worse. In this day and age, it is extremely hard to win a SB without a true franchise QB, a franchise guy has always been important but it is even less often than it used to be when a Dilfer or Flacco occasionally win one. The more the rules changed over the year and made it more of a QB friendly league, the more critical the need for a top tier QB is.

Those of us who want to go a different direction, often provide data, sources, as well as well thought out insights of our own. But when this happens those people are being ridiculed and called wrong for disagreeing.

But it is perfectly acceptable to say our receivers are trash because they aren't high draft picks, which is unfair. Were these same things being said in 2011 when an undrafted rookie (Victor Cruz) propelled us towards another Super Bowl win? These late round picks are ranked 25th and 31st overall based on the same grades the pro DJ side provide, theres 64+ starting WRs, so they are in the top half and they are doing this with an average QB. How can they then be considered bad receivers? Slayton has more receiving yards than DJ Moore and Jerry Jeudy, among others who many on here were clamoring for us to trade for.

The main issue here, is whether you are Pro Jones, Anti Jones, or Neutral, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but it seems that anyone who defends Jones to the death is unable to acknowledge or accept that truth. I and many others have repeatedly said that opinions on both ends are entitled and well thought out. I cannot say I have seen much of that on the other end of the debate from from the "pro Jones" side of things. Rather than attack each other, why can't we just engage in healthy debate and conversations about both Jones and anything else about the team?

If you like DJ and want him to stay, that's great. While we may not agree, we cab all share our views and reasons and have sustainable dialogue to keep the board active and moving. But if anyone critiques or challenges a certain article, or is not supported of Jones, they are often blasting, being called wrong, and labeled as a hater. We aren't haters for wanting a change. We just think they have a certain ceiling with him, and it is one where Super Bowls are not within reach.

Rank the following QB's on a scale of 1-10.

Colt McCoy
Dak Prescott
Daniel Jones
Mac Jones
Ryan Tannehill
Jimmy G
Goff
Mitch Trubisky
Derek Carr

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2022, 09:44:24 AMRank the following QB's on a scale of 1-10.

Colt McCoy
Dak Prescott
Daniel Jones
Mac Jones
Ryan Tannehill
Jimmy G
Goff
Mitch Trubisky
Derek Carr

Colt McCoy 3
Dak Prescott 7
Daniel Jones 5
Mac Jones 5?
Ryan Tannehill 5
Jimmy G 6
Goff 6
Mitch Trubisky 5
Derek Carr 7

Mac Jones was hard as he had a phenomenal rookie season, but has come down to earth with 2,189 yard 7 Td 8 Int so until I see different I've got to go 5

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 18, 2022, 11:12:03 AMColt McCoy 9
Dak Prescott 1
Daniel Jones 7
Mac Jones 6
Ryan Tannehill 5
Jimmy G 4
Goff 3
Mitch Trubisky 8
Derek Carr 2

Missing a name?

Wow! That's interesting. Looks like you saw one being the highest and you ranked them instead of scaling them. Ok, that's cool.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2022, 11:34:32 AMWow! That's interesting. Looks like you saw one being the highest and you ranked them instead of scaling them. Ok, that's cool.

Lol it was early where I am, was just trying to participate. I'll adjust now that I've had coffee.

Colt McCoy 2
Dak Prescott 6
Daniel Jones 5
Mac Jones 4
Ryan Tannehill 6
Jimmy G 6
Goff 6
Mitch Trubisky 5
Derek Carr 6

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 18, 2022, 12:58:15 PMColt McCoy 2
Dak Prescott 6
Daniel Jones 5
Mac Jones 4
Ryan Tannehill 6
Jimmy G 6
Goff 6
Mitch Trubisky 5
Derek Carr 6

Yeah similar to mine give or take, for the most part.

After a solid rookie season I thought Mac Jones would be better this season.  He's been a disappointment in New England to me.

I'm watching nfl network at the gym and for those who don't k is just show clips of games happening right now.

We should start a running thread of throws NFl QBs can make that Daniel Jones can't . So far I have seen dak prescott and Darnold of all things not to mention Jared Goff as well.

A fourth year qb the giants have which half the fan base is in love with and wants extended . Boggles the mind