Big Blue Huddle

You all realize you are just repeating yourselves over and over and over again making the same arguments and points right?

It's becoming just noise.

Let it go now till Feb-April and we will see who is right! 

It's getting old!

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 09:15:05 AMYeah, I know, but that didn't stop some folks from throwing around the 5 seconds number.  And please clarify, if you will, is that 2.9 figure time to throw or time in the pocket?

Time to throw is the time from the snap until the ball leaves the Qbs hands.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 27, 2022, 12:46:19 PMTime to throw is the time from the snap until the ball leaves the Qbs hands.

So it's not particularly relevant, since it includes the time he's running for his life.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 12:51:00 PMSo it's not particularly relevant, since it includes the time he's running for his life.

 

You want to know the really interesting thing about Jones fans. They were already emotionally invested in this guy, and are hardly sincere in caims like...

"Shoen will use the final X games as an evaluation period" or "let's see how the season plays out"

They already are and were convinced Jones should be the QB here and then they go looking for reasons why. And it goes without saying that they have excuses at the ready.

You can't argue with them about things like Baker looking great the other day ; is a free agent; and makes much more sense to build around than pay the same money to Jones on a whim and prayer.Or that Daniel Jones according to his numbers is really like a bottom tier QB.

You will never convince them because Jones to them is what a QB is supposed to be and look like and act like. The fact that he really isn't a very good QB is secondary.

It's too bad I was not around here for Eli ....Anti - Eliers I have seen --who didn't like him --didn't really like his mannerisms and because he would always blame his receivers when there was a communication problem, and they thought he whined too much. So that is why to them Jones is a better QB than Eli. Just like Baker is not better than jones either (even though he clearly is)

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 27, 2022, 12:30:06 PMOffensive line has been good enough for this team to have a good passing offense.  No excuses needed.  It's a reasonably competent NFL offensive line.

Only 2 QBs have been sacked more and only one QB has been hurried more, so I can't possibly agree with your contention.  The Giants O-line stinks at pass pro, no matter what kind of hand-waving is done.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 12:55:48 PMOnly 2 QBs have been sacked more and only one QB has been hurried more, so I can't possibly agree with your contention.  The Giants O-line stinks at pass pro, no matter what kind of hand-waving is done.

When you have an indecisive QB that holds onto the ball as long as Jones does he's going to get sacked a lot.  I don't put that all on the offensive line. 

Quote from: Fletch on December 27, 2022, 12:53:29 PMYou want to know the really interesting thing about Jones fans. They were already emotionally invested in this guy, and are hardly sincere in caims like...

"Shoen will use the final X games as an evaluation period" or "let's see how the season plays out"

They already are and were convinced Jones should be the QB here and then they go looking for reasons why. And it goes without saying that they have excuses at the ready.

You can't argue with them about things like Baker looking great the other day and he is a free agent or that Daniel Jones according to his numbers is really like a bottom tier QB.

You will never convince them because Jones to them is what a QB is supposed to be and look like and act like. The fact that he really isn't a very good QB is secondary.

It's too bad I was not around here for Eli ....Anti - Eliers I have seen --who didn't like him --didn't really like his mannerisms and because he would always blame his receivers when there was a communication problem, and they thought he whined too much. So that is why to them Jones is a better QB than Eli.

Funny thing, I feel like I am one of the defenders of DJ, and I've probably made the strongest case for letting him (and Barkley) move on while they focus their CAP space on extending their stars like Dexter and Thomas, and picking up mid-pay-range FAs at lower value position like ILB and IOL, and maybe one big FA signing if there's someone they really like at one of our myriad positions of need.

Quote from: Fletch on December 27, 2022, 12:53:29 PMYou will never convince them because Jones to them is what a QB is supposed to be and look like and act like. The fact that he really isn't a very good QB is secondary.

At the end of the day, fans don't need "convincing".  We shall get our answer when we see if the Giants keep Jones as their starting QB

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 27, 2022, 12:58:31 PMWhen you have an indecisive QB that holds onto the ball as long as Jones does he's going to get sacked a lot.  I don't put that all on the offensive line. 

And they say no one is making excuses for the OL.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 12:51:00 PMSo it's not particularly relevant, since it includes the time he's running for his life.

In my opinion and from what I've read from professionals that use next Gen stats for clearer picture of what's going on with an offense "Time to Throw" doesn't give a ton of information on its own. Only when it's coupled with other next Gen stats like actual Air Yards, and intended air yards can you get a better picture.

For example:

Patrick mahomes has a bad time to throw stat but his air yards and intended air yards are way above average borderline really long, and his 20+ and 40+ plays are tops in the league then we can assume from the data that his time to throw is bad not because of the offensive line or anything he's doing but because he is holding the ball longer to allow for routes/plays to develop.

Daniel Jones Bad time to throw stat and his Inteded air yards, and actual air yards are extremely short, that he's holding the ball and not throwing it far when he does release suggests a disconnect in the offense. 

If that helps, but yeah time to throw doesn't offer much without context of other stats involved.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 01:04:31 PMAnd they say no one is making excuses for the OL.

Difference is I am not trying to argue this offensive line will be elite with the addition of one elite level player.  IMO they've been sufficient with room for improvement.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 01:02:23 PMFunny thing, I feel like I am one of the defenders of DJ, and I've probably made the strongest case for letting him (and Barkley) move on while they focus their CAP space on extending their stars like Dexter and Thomas, and picking up mid-pay-range FAs at lower value position like ILB and IOL, and maybe one big FA signing if there's someone they really like at one of our myriad positions of need.

I can never make and sense of the letting Barkley go arguments. How is this team going to score any points?

And why is it some package deal? Barkley stays since he clearly the best player on this team/ the focal point of the offense/ the only player who who has any kind of breakout plays and you can tag him for relatively little cap space.

All this talk about Sexy dex and linebackers is trying to get too cute. This defense is not a problem. And dexter is a good to have 2 down player; nothing near as important as barkley.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 27, 2022, 01:08:38 PMDifference is I am not trying to argue this offensive line will be elite with the addition of one elite level player.  IMO they've been sufficient with room for improvement.

Neither am I so this is a straw man argument.  They are not sufficient at pass pro, they stink.  They have one excellent player and a bunch of guys who would be back-ups on most teams.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 01:02:23 PMFunny thing, I feel like I am one of the defenders of DJ, and I've probably made the strongest case for letting him (and Barkley) move on while they focus their CAP space on extending their stars like Dexter and Thomas, and picking up mid-pay-range FAs at lower value position like ILB and IOL, and maybe one big FA signing if there's someone they really like at one of our myriad positions of need.

I will give you that all day. Where most people try to act neutral you are neutral from what I've seen in discussions. Even though you and I have different perspectives on Jones, we both feel the same about the future of the team. Ie Should have traded Barkley, let Jones walk, acquire solid pieces at cheaper positions in FA and draft for premium.