Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 19, 2023, 12:50:04 PMI understand all of that, what I was referring to is all the posts of the videos that say apologize now, or how could you doubt him, and saying critics were wrong or being unrealistic because just a month ago Daniel had a stretch of 6 games where there was real doubt. From the Seattle game until the first Philly game there were serious problems with this offense and serious question marks about the QB in particular. So after a really great outing the past 5 weeks we can all be really happy that we are thriving as a team while also being grounded and realize there were serious problems with the offense including the Qb for portions of the season because there were. Like I said really happy we found our groove and the offense is functioning at a high level bit we definitely hit some Seattle, detriot, Dallas, and Philly sized pot holes along the way.

I wrote something similar in response to the receivers having a great game against Minny. Essentially, the comments and criticisms that were made at the time they were made were valid and legit. Same with Jones.

Now it appears the light is on and he's processing and playing at a much more efficient and productive rate. Rich mentioned Daniel's self confidence and I agree that he has a different look in his eye and pocket presence. He seems to be more comfortable and not rushed.

I believe he's turned the corner. The harsh reviews and questions were appropriate at the time they were made. Now? Not so much.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 19, 2023, 12:50:04 PMI understand all of that, what I was referring to is all the posts of the videos that say apologize now, or how could you doubt him, and saying critics were wrong or being unrealistic because just a month ago Daniel had a stretch of 6 games where there was real doubt. From the Seattle game until the first Philly game there were serious problems with this offense and serious question marks about the QB in particular. So after a really great outing the past 5 weeks we can all be really happy that we are thriving as a team while also being grounded and realize there were serious problems with the offense including the Qb for portions of the season because there were. Like I said really happy we found our groove and the offense is functioning at a high level bit we definitely hit some Seattle, detriot, Dallas, and Philly sized pot holes along the way.

In the end, it appears (not absolutely certain, but it is looking that way) that the critics were wrong about Jones.  I think the issue is how reasonable those positions were.   Considering that Schoen passed on Jones' 5th year option and brought in Tyrod Taylor on a 2-year deal, I am having a hard time saying the critic's positions were unreasonable as clearly the new people in the building had their doubts.

 

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 18, 2023, 12:40:44 PMThis should be in the DJ thread

I'm the one who posted it so maybe I should explain myself.  I posted it in the More Flotsam and Jetsam thread, a thread I created to post to links of videos and articles that some members might not have seen.  To date I'm the only one that has posted in the 2 F & J threads, so there was almost no chance that it would devolve into the kind of back and forth that caused this DJ catch-all thread to be necessary.

But more to the point, if you watched the video (I don't know if you did or not) it not only shows JT breaking down some DJ plays it shows JT highlighting the deficiencies of the Vikings secondary.  There's been lots of talk about the Vikings poor pass defense, but this video gives specific examples of those deficiencies and how the Giants' play calling exploited them.  So in that sense the DJ content was not nearly the whole story.  I don't know how much DJ content has to be in a video to consign it to this thread.

Obviously I posted it where I though it should go, and equally obviously the mods disagreed and moved it (I hope they actually watched it before moving it).  I'm disappointed that they moved it but I accept that.  But I also think the mods are capable of moderating the board without help from thread police.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 19, 2023, 02:19:19 PMI'm the one who posted it so maybe I should explain myself.  I posted it in the More Flotsam and Jetsam thread, a thread I created to post to links of videos and articles that some members might not have seen.  To date I'm the only one that has posted in the 2 F & J threads, so there was almost no chance that it would devolve into the kind of back and forth that caused this DJ catch-all thread to be necessary.

But more to the point, if you watched the video (I don't know if you did or not) it not only shows JT breaking down some DJ plays it shows JT highlighting the deficiencies of the Vikings secondary.  There's been lots of talk about the Vikings poor pass defense, but this video gives specific examples of those deficiencies and how the Giants' play calling exploited them.  So in that sense the DJ content was not nearly the whole story.  I don't know how much DJ content has to be in a video to consign it to this thread.

Obviously I posted it where I though it should go, and equally obviously the mods disagreed and moved it (I hope they actually watched it before moving it).  I'm disappointed that they moved it but I accept that.  But I also think the mods are capable of moderating the board without help from thread police.

What you quoted, was in a topic that was not created by you, and was in response to the topic creator

See post #998, that was the original message of another topic, and what you quoted was a post in that topic before it rightfully got moved here.

So honestly, no, I did not see your video, nor have I opened the Flotsam topic you speak of, so honestly I have no clue what you are on about in this post. But my post was not directed at you, so I was not "policing" your post(s).

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 19, 2023, 03:08:19 PMWhat you quoted, was in a topic that was not created by you, and was in response to the topic creator

See post #998, that was the original message of another topic, and what you quoted was a post in that topic before it rightfully got moved here.

So honestly, no, I did not see your video, nor have I opened the Flotsam topic you speak of, so honestly I have no clue what you are on about in this post. But my post was not directed at you, so I was not "policing" your post(s).

It's certainly possible I had a brain fart.  I was sure I had posted the QB School video in the Flotsam thread.  Perhaps I got confused as to which post "This" referred to since there was no indication.  So I'll apologize since I was probably at fault.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 19, 2023, 03:16:14 PMIt's certainly possible I had a brain fart.  I was sure I had posted the QB School video in the Flotsam thread.  Perhaps I got confused as to which post "This" referred to since there was no indication.  So I'll apologize since I was probably at fault.

State_property created a thread that was referring to Jones improving year on year and that's what TrueBlue was referring to when he said it should be in the Jones thread.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 19, 2023, 03:37:13 PMState_property created a thread that was referring to Jones improving year on year and that's what TrueBlue was referring to when he said it should be in the Jones thread.

Thanks for clearing that up.  Obviously I was confused.  I've apologized to TrueBlue both publicly and privately.  And expressed my admiration for certain posts he's made. 

Quote from: T200 on January 19, 2023, 01:11:54 PMI wrote something similar in response to the receivers having a great game against Minny. Essentially, the comments and criticisms that were made at the time they were made were valid and legit. Same with Jones.

Now it appears the light is on and he's processing and playing at a much more efficient and productive rate. Rich mentioned Daniel's self confidence and I agree that he has a different look in his eye and pocket presence. He seems to be more comfortable and not rushed.

I believe he's turned the corner. The harsh reviews and questions were appropriate at the time they were made. Now? Not so much.

I agree with this assessment 100x over. The game has started to slow down for Jones. He is not locking on WRs and he is processing quick and aware of the chains and internal clock. He deserved all of the criticism which came his way for the results he was putting up but he now also deserves all the heaps of praise he is being given.

Last week was a big test. This week is an even bigger one.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 19, 2023, 01:04:49 PMI completely agree that he was learning a new offense so that took time, I'm not sure if it was playing calling, him not being comfortable, or them just having a leash on him initially but like I was telling Rich the offense looks completely different in the last 5 games than the 6 game stretch from Detroit to the first Philly game. The national media probably don't watch a ton of Giants games and for most of them are probably going off of our more high profiled meetings in Dallas, Philly, Seattle etc and so to change a narrative around Jones that he's had for 4 years will likely take longer than 5 games.

I like to think there are flows to a season and at the beginning of the season Jones was doing his part in our wins so I'd give him a B for the early portion and then a C for the Detriot to first Philly stretch, and then an A for the final stretch. Like I said above it's hard to know what took him or the offense so long to click whether they were being held back or what, but if they opened up the playbook all season like they have the past 5 games I believe the perception of Jones would have already changed but because it's just now a lot of people will assume the team just got hot instead of Jones maturation in the offense. I can see both sides but obviously see the progression he's made week to week and think the way he played last week is his longterm outlook going forward. That's not to say I wouldn't feel more conformable if he goes out and repeats the Vikings performance on a really good Philly defense.

Hi,

I would just say that we need to remember almost every QB who played against the Eagles struggled this year, with the lone exception being Dak Prescott.

Prescott was phenomenal against them, over 347 Yards and a 124 Rating.

So, I think we need to temper our expectations with regards to how DJ will perform against them this weekend, but if he is able to put up solid numbers against them on Saturday, then we really have something special.

Let's see how this transpires.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 19, 2023, 04:21:04 PMThanks for clearing that up.  Obviously I was confused.  I've apologized to TrueBlue both publicly and privately.  And expressed my admiration for certain posts he's made. 

No worries 🤜

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 19, 2023, 10:42:17 AMCowherd has always been real with his opinion and can you blame him? Until the last 5 games can you say Jones was really wowing anyone, I can't. Yes he has flourished the past 5 games and Cowherd acknowledges that but doesn't ignore the past 3 1/2 years of football, he also sees the Daboll effect especially on Josh Allen now that he's not there and realizes coaching is a real thing. There is no denying Jones is playing like a fringe top 10 Qb right now but those games were against the Commanders who he is always comfortable with, a dysfunctional Colts teams, and a Vikings team with the worst passing D twice. He still did what was asked but to act like he's now the end all be all for beating bad teams and calling out critics is a little rushed. Do I think he's the immediate future yes, but the beginning and middle of this season were still huge question marks about him as a Qb. I'm glad he's come on, but we can't all act like he was doing this all season because he wasn't, yes he was taking care of the ball but our 1st half offense was nonexistent for most of the season besides the Jacksonville game, and we had trouble Sustaining a drive much less multiple, so I'm excited for his growth, and glad it's showing, but still think we can be a little grounded in realizing that he just started flashing a hand full of games ago and before that he was definitely still a question mark.

My gripe with Cowherd is basically he is saying that DJ is nothing but an "average" type player - athleticism and arm talent wise.

He's always had that talent because if not they would not be calling design runs for him.  He's shown us that even his rookie year - his legs has always been a part of his skillset.  Arm talent wise, wouldn't you agree that DJ has at least above average arm talent?  Just the throws he made vs the Vikes - that sideline throw to Hodgins sliding to his left or even that throw to Slayton at the corner of the endzone.  Dan pointed out in their breakdown with Nick that he put the a catachable ball for Slayton to make a play without having his feet set to step into the throw.  If we had a stud WR that may even be 6.

What DJ has not had is competent coaching and it shows on the tape.  There were plays where the defense were baiting DJ into throws that might lead to turnovers and he simply looked away.  Not forcing the ball or trying to play hero ball in the endozne on a close game.  Even taking the sack while trying to milk the clock to end the game - those are high IQ plays for him.  That's what this coaching staff has developed into DJ.

Has DJ reached his ceiling?  I would argue not yet.  Let's keep in mind we are still in year 1 of a new offensive scheme and with sub standard talent at WR.  Our offense can only continue to get better when we get more pieces to run the scheme and with better familiarity with the scheme.

I really wonder what would have happened if Joe Judge hadn't been fired at the end of last season.   I think that was a real possibility.  If Joe hadn't done that 15-minute meltdown rant and perhaps not run those QB sneaks, he could have returned for another season.   Would Jones have flourished under Kitchens or whoever Judge brought in as the new OC?   

I suspect things would have gone in a very different direction with Jones out (and looking for a chance to compete with another team) and the Giants being a top 5 drafting team looking at this year's crop of draftable QBs.  Not sure if the Giants would have been able to hire Schoen if he was saddled with Judge as his HC.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 20, 2023, 09:19:26 AMI really wonder what would have happened if Joe Judge hadn't been fired at the end of last season.   I think that was a real possibility.  If Joe hadn't done that 15-minute meltdown rant and perhaps not run those QB sneaks, he could have returned for another season.   Would Jones have flourished under Kitchens or whoever Judge brought in as the new OC?   

I suspect things would have gone in a very different direction with Jones out (and looking for a chance to compete with another team) and the Giants being a top 5 drafting team looking at this year's crop of draftable QBs.  Not sure if the Giants would have been able to hire Schoen if he was saddled with Judge as his HC.

95% of those close wins we coached our way into would have been losses, and we would all be screaming for our preference of Young, Stroud, Levis and co with the #3-4 overall pick.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 20, 2023, 09:19:26 AMI really wonder what would have happened if Joe Judge hadn't been fired at the end of last season.   I think that was a real possibility.  If Joe hadn't done that 15-minute meltdown rant and perhaps not run those QB sneaks, he could have returned for another season.   Would Jones have flourished under Kitchens or whoever Judge brought in as the new OC?   

I suspect things would have gone in a very different direction with Jones out (and looking for a chance to compete with another team) and the Giants being a top 5 drafting team looking at this year's crop of draftable QBs.  Not sure if the Giants would have been able to hire Schoen if he was saddled with Judge as his HC.

I also wonder what would have happened if Mara had recognized how badly he screwed up with Gettleman 2 years earlier and brought in Schoen, who brought in Daboll, in DJ's second year.  I'm guessing that by this year DJ would be an MVP candidate. And with a solid roster, the Giants would have been the #1 seed.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 20, 2023, 09:46:59 AM95% of those close wins we coached our way into would have been losses, and we would all be screaming for our preference of Young, Stroud, Levis and co with the #3-4 overall pick.

I am always mindful that player success is equal parts drafting combined with coaching/player development