Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 24, 2023, 06:04:48 AMBill,

I think it is safe to say Schoen and Daboll don't think Jones choked.  Otherwise they wouldn't have shared their desire to and intention to re-sign Jones.

I think both can be true. They can privately think he choked but also believe he can improve and be the QB they want/need to win a championship.

Quote from: T200 on January 24, 2023, 08:05:59 AMI think both can be true. They can privately think he choked but also believe he can improve and be the QB they want/need to win a championship.

Tim,

The Eagles game was a total team butt-kicking.  As Joe Schoen said, there is a talent gap issue at play.  "Choke" implies the pressure was too much for him. 

"Choke" is a good description of what we saw with Dak Prescott, where two evenly matched teams met, but the Cowboys lost because of Dak's unforced errors and not coming up big.   In the case of the Giants, we had already seen DJ handle high-pressure situations well (something that Dak has had a reputation for not handling).  When a team is totally overwhelmed by a more talented team, I don't think there is any way you can single out the play of a given player. 

I will also point out that the Giants, in terms of upcoming contract negotiations, would have been served by criticizing Jones' performance against the Eagles.  The fact that they didn't blame him (and instead pointed to talent) speaks volumes about what they thought.

Dak and DJ both choked. Dak's was worse because, as you said, the teams were fairly matched.

The Giants were clearly overmatched talent-wise and definitely outcoached. Jones reverted back to last season where he was indecisive and shell-shocked.

Quote from: T200 on January 24, 2023, 08:39:28 AMDak and DJ both choked. Dak's was worse because, as you said, the teams were fairly matched.

The Giants were clearly overmatched talent-wise and definitely outcoached. Jones reverted back to last season where he was indecisive and shell-shocked.

You don't have to go back to last season. The first Dallas game was this same version of DJ. The game ocurring around him looked too fast for him to process.

Not just the 1st Dallas game but the Seattle game and Detriot game as well.

Quote from: Billbrown on January 24, 2023, 05:23:23 AMThey won 4 straight in week 4,5,6,and 7. But you keep trying to find all the negatives. But look at the bright side. You may be able to crap all over DJ for the next 3 or 4 years if JS and BD have their way.

Bill

They were talking about AFTER week 6!

Quote from: T200 on January 24, 2023, 08:39:28 AMDak and DJ both choked. Dak's was worse because, as you said, the teams were fairly matched.

The Giants were clearly overmatched talent-wise and definitely outcoached. Jones reverted back to last season where he was indecisive and shell-shocked.

Tim,

This sums it up perfectly, I agree with you.

Dak absolutely blew it, because if he played a clean game the Cowboys probably would have won that game, as their defense was incredible.

In DJ's case he also choked, but as you and Mighty brought out he was playing on an inferior team.

However even though that was the case, there were certain plays that you could see the Eagles were in his head, and he was not comfortable mentally.

A) On 2nd and 1 instead of just throwing the ball away, he runs out of bounds and loses 5 yards.
B) He tripped over his own lineman's feet not once but twice.
C) He overthrows a wide-open James which could have been a touchdown.
D) He underthrows Slayton by 5 yards on a go route which could have been another touchdown.
E) He overthrows Bellinger on an easy 5 yard out.

Him losing his contacts on the field wasn't his fault either, but that was the type of day it was for the GMEN.

Also, the Giants defense was absolutely atrocious especially on stopping the run, they gave up over 268 yards.

So even if DJ played a perfect game, they still wouldn't have won because they were outmatched talent wise and dominated physically at the point of attack.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on January 24, 2023, 12:25:54 PMTim,

This sums it up perfectly, I agree with you.

Dak absolutely blew it, because if he played a clean game the Cowboys probably would have won that game, as their defense was incredible.

In DJ's case he also choked, but as you and Mighty brought out he was playing on an inferior team.

However even though that was the case, there were certain plays that you could see the Eagles were in his head, and he was not comfortable mentally.

A) On 2nd and 1 instead of just throwing the ball away, he runs out of bounds and loses 5 yards.
B) He tripped over his own lineman's feet not once but twice.
C) He overthrows a wide-open James which could have been a touchdown.
D) He underthrows Slayton by 5 yards on a go route which could have been another touchdown.
E) He overthrows Bellinger on an easy 5 yard out.

Him losing his contacts on the field wasn't his fault either, but that was the type of day it was for the GMEN.

Also, the Giants defense was absolutely atrocious especially on stopping the run, they gave up over 268 yards.

So even if DJ played a perfect game, they still wouldn't have won because they were outmatched talent wise and dominated physically at the point of attack.

Spot on the money. I would add he also was locked on receivers all night long - something we had not seen in awhile.

https://youtu.be/CqI-M-CnuUc

This was a horrible throw, and one that cannot be excused if one is a franchise guy

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 24, 2023, 02:11:42 PMhttps://youtu.be/CqI-M-CnuUc

This was a horrible throw, and one that cannot be excused if one is a franchise guy

I understand what you are saying, however if you take a look DJ threw the ball when the WR was coming back to him, and Bradburry just timed the route perfectly, by jumping it.

On this interception I don't blame DJ too much, JB just made a great play.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 24, 2023, 02:11:42 PMhttps://youtu.be/CqI-M-CnuUc

This was a horrible throw, and one that cannot be excused if one is a franchise guy

Here is Falato's break down on this play

QuotePhiladelphia sat on the Giants' quick game and even baited the interception throw on the Giants' second drive:

Of course, it had to be James Bradberry (24)...like Michel Jordan, a lot of us took that personally. It was a great play design from Gannon, who sent Chauncey Gardner-Johnson (23) on a nickel blitz with Josh Sweat (94) on the line of scrimmage. Sweat stepped to the line and expanded laterally after seeing Saquon Barkley (26) flare to the flat, which prompted Andrew Thomas (78) and Nick Gates (65) to kick outside, leaving a void in the A-Gap for Garnder-Johnson.

Jones diagnosed the blitz and knew the pre-snap look was Quarters, meaning two-deep safeties with the corners 7 yards off in outside leverage. The blitz was not picked up in the five-man protection package with four rushers, and Jones threw the quick hot route to Slayton. However, Bradberry reacted quickly and closed downhill to intercept Jones. Shortly after, the Eagles scored a touchdown to DeVonta Smith and extend their lead to 14 points with time left in the first quarter.

Bradberry is a very smart cornerback, and I'm not shocked he intercepted Jones in quick game. Jonathan Gannon also used Cover 1 on 28.3 percent of snaps, and the Giants' receivers struggled to consistently separate from one of the best secondaries in the league.

TO THE PART IN BOLD-  I guess we shall see what the Giants think.  It is safe to say if they agree with your assertion, they will be letting Jones walk without even an effort to re-sign him (you don't retain a QB who you don't believe is a franchise QB). 

The link to Falato

https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/1/24/23568806/after-further-review-what-can-we-learn-via-tweets-from-the-loss-to-the-eagles

This is where I feel the coaching was lacking; either from Daboll, Kafka and/or the QB coach. They saw the DBs were aggressive and jumping routes... call for some pump fakes, double moves and take advantage of their aggressiveness.

I'd like to see him develop a little shoulder pump... it doesn't take much for a DB to bite on a QB's movements.

Quote from: T200 on January 24, 2023, 02:36:03 PMThis is where I feel the coaching was lacking; either from Daboll, Kafka and/or the QB coach. They saw the DBs were aggressive and jumping routes... call for some pump fakes, double moves and take advantage of their aggressiveness.

I'd like to see him develop a little shoulder pump... it doesn't take much for a DB to bite on a QB's movements.

Tim,

The team leaned on the quick game for much of the second half of the season to help their weak O-line.  The problem is when teams get wise to it. Defenders will jump the routes as Bradberry did. One thing I would like to see the Giants coaches do is to incorporate the screen game into their offense.  We frequently saw opposing offenses exploit the Giants' defensive aggressiveness with a well-run screen game.  It would be good if the Giants could copy that as an answer to aggressive pass rushes.

Quote from: T200 on January 24, 2023, 02:36:03 PMThis is where I feel the coaching was lacking; either from Daboll, Kafka and/or the QB coach. They saw the DBs were aggressive and jumping routes... call for some pump fakes, double moves and take advantage of their aggressiveness.

I'd like to see him develop a little shoulder pump... it doesn't take much for a DB to bite on a QB's movements.

I don't think that Jones has a pump fake or anything like that in his arsenal.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 24, 2023, 02:44:52 PMI don't think that Jones has a pump fake or anything like that in his arsenal.

https://twitter.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1615016971963088899


https://twitter.com/AlexWilsonESM/status/1569063900116832256