Big Blue Huddle

I hate this for jones. i really want him to succeed. but its impossible. impossible. i dont want it to be true, but he IS shot. He just isnt the guy to put it all on his shoulders and overcome the odds. its true that he's only as good as the talent around him. i just dont really subscribe to the idea that someone else, especially a rookie, is gonna come in and all of a sudden dominate when we still have SO many other issues. We've seen what jones can do when he has time. its not fair that this is happening to him, but as someone stated above, it doesnt matter anymore. even though he has every right to be seeing ghosts and being gun shy, thats not gonna cut it in this league. i have every feeling that if we let him go and a team with a solid line and coaching picks him up he will succeed. daniel jones didnt fail the giants. the giants failed him. thats a fact.

Quote from: JT39 on October 03, 2023, 06:35:14 AMIt's ok to think Jones should force the ball down the field more and take chances. Hell, Eli did it a lot during his career that led to many great plays and also bad ones too. It's five and take.

However we also have to concede that Darius Slayton is a very poor player at this point and Paris Campbell is a waste of a roster spot.

Those two are combing to making 9 million a year. Just another thing to add to the list of things troubling the Giants.

I agree that Campbell has been a big disappointment versus what fans built him up in their minds to potentially be, although I'm not sure why anyone had high expectations about a free agent that was obtainable for a one year deal worth under $5mm a year. That's incredibly low for a WR. So this idea that he was going to "break out" on the Giants was more of a fan thing than anything backed up by the facts on the ground.

Slayton is an OK player. He's never been great, but he has some value. He's obviously not a high end receiver but he's not totally useless.

I get that the Giants don't have Stephon Diggs or Tyreek Hill on the team. But there are plenty of respectable aerial options on this team. Why aren't we looking to Waller more? I am not even talking about the end zone pick where he was open, but just in general? Even if there is a guy on him, Waller is 6'6", 250, fast, and can jump. Give him a chance to make a play. Hodgins is another one who can make catches in traffic.

When Eli had Burress, was Burress always wide open and did he always have 5-10 yards of separation when Eli went to him? No way. I remember those years well. It was constant back shoulder and jump ball and fade type stuff with him. Jones just doesn't seem to be able to make those kinds of throws. Which is a problem because they're kind of essential in the NFL. The idea that guys have to be completely wide open for him to be willing to throw the ball more than 5-7 yards makes for an impossible situation, as the NFL just isn't like that. Watch someone like Gabe Davis on the Bills. If he were on the Giants I guarantee you Giants fans would say he sucks. And he's not some great receiver, but Allen does use him. Do you think that guy gets 2015 OBJ type separation? Again I think people need to watch other teams if they're convinced Jones has uniquely bad receivers at "getting open." Our receivers aren't the problem.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 02, 2023, 11:28:36 PMI hate to say it but Daboll may not survive this season. The team right now looks badly coached. They could very well be 0-4 right now. It's a bad situation.

i for one am sick of daboll at this point. you had 11 days to get this team prepared. we dont do one single thing well. every week this happens. sloppy, undisciplined play. thats on the coaching. i think he's a bigger problem than jones right now, along with kafka. WTF kind of game plan is that?

Quote from: JT39 on October 03, 2023, 06:35:14 AMIt's ok to think Jones should force the ball down the field more and take chances. Hell, Eli did it a lot during his career that led to many great plays and also bad ones too. It's five and take.

However we also have to concede that Darius Slayton is a very poor player at this point and Paris Campbell is a waste of a roster spot.

Those two are combing to making 9 million a year. Just another thing to add to the list of things troubling the Giants.

You're talking about two receivers.  You still have the rookie Hyatt.  You still have Robinson who looked like their best player last night.  And you have Waller the guy you traded for to be that big target for Jones.

There's enough there to be productive with.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 03, 2023, 06:56:53 AMI agree that Campbell has been a big disappointment versus what fans built him up in their minds to potentially be, although I'm not sure why anyone had high expectations about a free agent that was obtainable for a one year deal worth under $5mm a year. That's incredibly low for a WR. So this idea that he was going to "break out" on the Giants was more of a fan thing than anything backed up by the facts on the ground.

Slayton is an OK player. He's never been great, but he has some value. He's obviously not a high end receiver but he's not totally useless.

I get that the Giants don't have Stephon Diggs or Tyreek Hill on the team. But there are plenty of respectable aerial options on this team. Why aren't we looking to Waller more? I am not even talking about the end zone pick where he was open, but just in general? Even if there is a guy on him, Waller is 6'6", 250, fast, and can jump. Give him a chance to make a play. Hodgins is another one who can make catches in traffic.

When Eli had Burress, was Burress always wide open and did he always have 5-10 yards of separation when Eli went to him? No way. I remember those years well. It was constant back shoulder and jump ball and fade type stuff with him. Jones just doesn't seem to be able to make those kinds of throws. Which is a problem because they're kind of essential in the NFL. The idea that guys have to be completely wide open for him to be willing to throw the ball more than 5-7 yards makes for an impossible situation, as the NFL just isn't like that. Watch someone like Gabe Davis on the Bills. If he were on the Giants I guarantee you Giants fans would say he sucks. And he's not some great receiver, but Allen does use him. Do you think that guy gets 2015 OBJ type separation? Again I think people need to watch other teams if they're convinced Jones has uniquely bad receivers at "getting open." Our receivers aren't the problem.

I think a few factors go into what you're saying:

1. Jones has his obvious warts. But he obviously doesn't trust his OL at all (let's be honest - not many would). Even times when the pocket was somewhat clean - he escaped it because he doesn't believe the OL can hold up. People think it's easy to say he can't be shell shocked or should play through it. But man he has taken some shots in the pocket. He's human. And this isn't excusing his play. The pick 6 was horrendous. His awareness on the fumble was very poor too.

2. He doesn't trust his WR either. I mean Robinson looks good. But not having a true number 1 really hurts a QB like Jones. I do agree immensely that he needs to force more to Waller. Especially in the red zone. He needs to be the first read every time.

It's just a perfect ****storm right now. Last night we got poor play from Jones. Our OL has been bad all year. Our WRs aren't performing. And the worst part possibly???

Daboll and Kafka are getting severely out coached.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 03, 2023, 07:00:09 AMYou're talking about two receivers.  You still have the rookie Hyatt.  You still have Robinson who looked like their best player last night.  And you have Waller the guy you traded for to be that big target for Jones.

There's enough there to be productive with.

Hyatt plays very little to make an impact. Robinson I have conceded has looked good but is on a snap count.

Slayton and Campbell play the majority of the game. They aren't good. I do agree we need to throw to Walker more. But as a group - it's still one of the worst units in football.

I mean even you have to concede Campbell is useless.

Quote from: NY47GIANTS on October 03, 2023, 12:04:29 AMHe stinks.

Today, he stunk.

For the last 5 years he has been stinking.

If you're still in the work force, can you imagine showing up to work everyday, and hearing how awful you and your coworkers are ALL THE TIME?!?

Except for Daniel.

No. In fact, YOU'RE the reason Daniel's metrics are so bad.

Is there a single person that wouldn't at least be a bit resentful?

Is there another player in league history with a red carpet of excuses longer than Daniel Jones?

Yet, if you watch these meaningless games, guys like Evan Neal, and Glowinski, and every other person maligned for our league worst Quarterback play are still BATTLING.

That's moxie.

I want guys like that on my team (maybe not starting in every scenario).

The desire to quit must be so strong in that locker room. Half the team already has.

Yet these guys get back up and take beating after beating knowing they'll get beaten again if they open the paper or read the news online.

I don't buy injuries either.

Every team deals with injuries. Pro bowlers are born through the next man up mentality.

This is why guys PLAY HURT.

No one in the right mind is playing hurt so they can end up being an excuse for Daniel Jones.

It's pathetic, really.

Are they tanking for Arch?

Something about the timing on the term of that TERRIBLE contract is piquing my interest.

This is a terrible take IMO. could you imagine being the guy that has to take the hit for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE EMPLOYEES RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR SUCESS failing you EVERY step of the way? He's not a difference maker, but to sit here and say THEY resent jones when they are directly responsible for (most) of his shortcomings? thats a rough take man.

Quote from: AYM on October 03, 2023, 12:05:33 AMIf we're in position to pick one of those guys, it means we likely only win 1-2 more games this year. That would represent not only an arrow pointing down, but would be worse than any season Reese or Gettleman had, meaning Schoen made a bad team even worse.


At that point you get a new everything. GM, coach, scouts, and QB. Start from scratch.

i agree. none of the schoens picks are lighting it up. none of dabolls players are excelling. look at witherspoon. rookie out there playing like an elite pro bowler already. backup oline getting the job done. pete carroll is a very good coach. daboll is not. this culture is shot already.

Quote from: True Blue on October 03, 2023, 12:15:11 AMI still think DJ is a solid QB, issue is, everything around him needs to go well for him to do well. Even then it's inconsistent

Last year we overachieved, against bad teams in a weaker NFC and a easy schedule. It was fools good and we were then overrated headed into the offseason. That is an error on Schoen and Dabs end

I still think that they are a great coach and GM, you don't win coach of the year flukefully, they made a mistake and I am sure they realize that and will do what needs to be done to correct it. There is a reason they designed an out on DJs contract. They had a plan B, and their hand was forced in any scenario there wasn't a good option for them better than Jones this year

I think DJs play is hurting the offense more than people think. Losing Barkley, AT and the bad OL hurt too. DJ is not the only issue here, OL still needs work. They need a #1 guy aside from Waller, Wandale, Hyatt and Hodgins are good 2s/3s, but they do need a top dog in that group, and they need a QB that will elevate them all and take the team to the next level. DJ won't succeed even if they find that guy, whereas a legit great QB would be able to win with this group.

Finding those guys are easier said than done, if they are in position they will need to make sure they get it right.

They need to be at least given a chance to pick their own QB and have 2 seasons with that QB playing before we talk losing jobs.

i think its fair to talk about losing jobs at this point. none of schoens picks are doing anything. dabolls group is undisciplined and unprepared every week. EVERY WEEK. this is basically the same team as last year with slight upgrades. unacceptable. i dont mind a hard fought loss. we've been thoroughly outcoached and outplayed every game this year, sans the second half of the arizona game. these teams know what we are going to do better than we do. thats called getting outcoached. and it sucks that jones has to be the one to take the blame for it. but i guess thats how it goes.

Quote from: JT39 on October 03, 2023, 07:07:29 AMHyatt plays very little to make an impact. Robinson I have conceded has looked good but is on a snap count.

Slayton and Campbell play the majority of the game. They aren't good. I do agree we need to throw to Walker more. But as a group - it's still one of the worst units in football.

I mean even you have to concede Campbell is useless.

Hyatt plays enough and is a deep threat but when Jones is always looking to check down he's never given the opportunities to get the ball.  It's Jones who needs to get these guys the ball.

Quote from: B1GBLUE on October 03, 2023, 07:13:38 AMi think its fair to talk about losing jobs at this point. none of schoens picks are doing anything.

Fans can obviously talk about anything they want to. They can say the sky is green. But there is no chance Mara fires Schoen after 2023. You would need some sort of major scandal or perhaps Schoen walking out on the job, but Mara gave Gettleman four years. He's not firing Schoen after two. Especially when year one was arguably the best year this team has had in a decade. He's not getting fired after 2023. The odds are less than 1%. But obviously people are more than entitled to talk about it if they believe it's going to happen.

Could he and Daboll be on the hot seat in 2024? Yes, possibly, depending on how the rest of 2023 goes. But fired after two years given the year they had in 2022? No chance. Sorry.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 03, 2023, 07:22:39 AMFans can obviously talk about anything they want to. They can say the sky is green. But there is no chance Mara fires Schoen after 2023. You would need some sort of major scandal or perhaps Schoen walking out on the job, but Mara gave Gettleman four years. He's not firing Schoen after two. Especially when year one was arguably the best year this team has had in a decade. He's not getting fired after 2023. The odds are less than 1%. But obviously people are more than entitled to talk about it if they believe it's going to happen.

Could he and Daboll be on the hot seat in 2024? Yes, possibly, depending on how the rest of 2023 goes. But fired after two years given the year they had in 2022? No chance. Sorry.

im not saying it should happen YET. but i think its fair to start questioning whether we are going to win with JS/BD. schoens picks are doing nothing, and dabolls players are getting destroyed on a weekly basis. they are trending in the wrong direction is what i am trying to say.

Quote from: B1GBLUE on October 03, 2023, 07:08:44 AMThis is a terrible take IMO. could you imagine being the guy that has to take the hit for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE EMPLOYEES RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR SUCESS failing you EVERY step of the way? He's not a difference maker, but to sit here and say THEY resent jones when they are directly responsible for (most) of his shortcomings? thats a rough take man.

If your QB isn't the difference maker then you can't expect to ever have a consistent productive offense.  And that gives you your answer to the question about whether Jones is the guy you can win with.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 03, 2023, 07:33:30 AMIf your QB isn't the difference maker then you can't expect to ever have a consistent productive offense.  And that gives you your answer to the question about whether Jones is the guy you can win with.

that part i agree with. but the sentiment that these other players resent jones for his shortcomings is insane. to say guys like lemiuex and glowinski have moxie because they take snaps? thats ridiculous. thats like saying hey at least my worst employees at least clock in every day. i for one dont want guys on my team that just show up to get paid. i want guys who are going to work hard even if the results arent always there. effort matters.

Quote from: B1GBLUE on October 03, 2023, 07:42:18 AMthat part i agree with. but the sentiment that these other players resent jones for his shortcomings is insane. to say guys like lemiuex and glowinski have moxie because they take snaps? thats ridiculous. thats like saying hey at least my worst employees at least clock in every day. i for one dont want guys on my team that just show up to get paid. i want guys who are going to work hard even if the results arent always there. effort matters.

Who said the players resent Jones?  If anything I've heard them all defend and be loyal to him throughout his career.  I don't buy it for a second that they resent him.