Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 30, 2023, 05:13:14 PMInteresting perspective. What do you not like about Williams?

It's so hard to judge a player from the sideline, but what worries me is inability to play well against a good defense so far in his career. Caleb Williams' numbers when playing against a top 25 scoring D (per CFB reference) and the results are not pretty. He's played 5 P5 top 25 defenses and has had 1 decent game and 4 bad to terrible games. He also holds onto the ball too long. He's obviously very talented. But I'm still hesitant that he is some can't miss prospect.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 30, 2023, 06:16:38 PMIt's so hard to judge a player from the sideline, but what worries me is inability to play well against a good defense so far in his career. Caleb Williams' numbers when playing against a top 25 scoring D (per CFB reference) and the results are not pretty. He's played 5 P5 top 25 defenses and has had 1 decent game and 4 bad to terrible games. He also holds onto the ball too long. He's obviously very talented. But I'm still hesitant that he is some can't miss prospect.

Good color.

To be fair, there is no such thing as a "can't miss prospect." People said that about Evan Neal, and look at how that has worked out. It is especially true with QBs.

What deal. I'm elated.

https://x.com/FieldYates/status/1719121369256915449?s=20

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 30, 2023, 07:27:56 PMhttps://x.com/FieldYates/status/1719121369256915449?s=20

Not what I had hoped for financially but if that's what it took to get a 2nd rounder,  then I'll take it.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 30, 2023, 07:55:21 PMNot what I had hoped for financially but if that's what it took to get a 2nd rounder,  then I'll take it.

This year is clearly a lost cause so the money side of it as far as 2023 goes isn't that important to me, personally. I care much more about what we're getting back.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 30, 2023, 06:16:38 PMIt's so hard to judge a player from the sideline, but what worries me is inability to play well against a good defense so far in his career. Caleb Williams' numbers when playing against a top 25 scoring D (per CFB reference) and the results are not pretty. He's played 5 P5 top 25 defenses and has had 1 decent game and 4 bad to terrible games. He also holds onto the ball too long. He's obviously very talented. But I'm still hesitant that he is some can't miss prospect.

I'm starting to really like Mccarthy over Williams and Maye. Maye can't elebate his team to even beat bad teams, much less good teams. That's really worrying about him and Williams.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 30, 2023, 08:39:45 PMI'm starting to really like Mccarthy over Williams and Maye. Maye can't elebate his team to even beat bad teams, much less good teams. That's really worrying about him and Williams.

I'm going to be watching McCarthy very, very closely two weeks from now in Happy Valley and then four weeks from now against Ohio State. Thus far this year he hasn't really been tested that much. Those two games are huge tests. Plus we'll likely see him in the Big 10 championship and also at least one playoff game. Also huge tests. Him lighting it up against the likes of Rutgers, Bowling Green, Nevada, Indiana etc means little to me.

To be clear I'm not knocking him. I like him too. But I want to see him elevate people in games like the ones I mentioned if I'm using a top six or seven pick on him.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 30, 2023, 08:29:49 PMThis year is clearly a lost cause so the money side of it as far as 2023 goes isn't that important to me, personally. I care much more about what we're getting back.

Agree in general, but cap money left over at the end of the year is rolled over.  Right now that's looking like it won't be enough to buy a water out of the machine at Costco.

Regardless,  a 2nd day pick is worth more than several million in cap space.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 30, 2023, 08:57:51 PMAgree in general, but cap money left over at the end of the year is rolled over.  Right now that's looking like it won't be enough to buy a water out of the machine at Costco.

Fair enough but with no answer at QB right now, plus a number of other significant question marks, realistically what are our chances of contention next year? I'm not suggesting we don't try, but I would still argue that the picks we're racking up are more important than a few mil here or there between this year or even next year.

BTW, while admittedly I have not done a big deep dive into this subject yet, I see us as 15th in 2024 cap space on Spotrac right now. Considering we've already locked up Thomas and Dex and don't have any major decisions outside of McKinney (to me Barkley is not a big decision anymore if he's even still here come the offseason), that doesn't seem like a disaster to me at all.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 30, 2023, 08:39:45 PMI'm starting to really like Mccarthy over Williams and Maye. Maye can't elebate his team to even beat bad teams, much less good teams. That's really worrying about him and Williams.

Me too.... Jim Harbaugh who usually doesn't talk up players keep saying this guy's generational talent.

Quote from: sooners56 on October 30, 2023, 05:19:02 PMIf they do use the 2nd they acquired and move up to draft the QB of the future that would also make it a great trade.

To answer your question...

There is a pro ready QB and his name is Caleb Williams. As a Sooners fan, it pained me to see him pack his bags with Lincoln Riley and head to sunny skies and sandy beaches. Make no mistake Williams is NFL ready. Even with his last few games being stinkers. He can make all the throws and has WOW plays throughout his collegiate career. Closest thing to Patrick Mahomes. He buys times with moving in pocket and scrambling all while
Looking to throw. He can make any throw and looks at ease doing it while on the move.

sooners: I admit I have only seen three of his games this season (two were the bad ones, both of which were against top teams that stymied him; AND importantly, he had no answer.

There were no ups and downs in either game; never caught fire; performance was the same from beginning to end (not bad but not in any way "elite") and simply did not come up big.

My interpretation - the best teams have the best coaches. He attracted a lot of attention last year (obviously) so they studied up on him and found his vulnerabilities, which IMO are still present. This worries me, although I do value your opinion and will try to examine as many more of his games as possible.

I'm not saying the Giants won't consider him, but it will be a huge surprise to me if they take him (assuming he shows nothing "special" in the final games of his college career).

Lastly, there's something about him that says to me "I'm already good enough to go in the first round, so I don't have to try very hard this year."  It's nothing concrete but I sense it. It worries me.

Bob

PS. If it matters, I thought the same thing about Thibodeaux and was demonstrated to be incorrect.

Whoa - JJ McCarty is a system QB.  He is not better than Maye or Williams.  McCarthy is Christian Ponder or Jake Locker.  Do Not Want

Quote from: Puffy on October 30, 2023, 10:39:12 PMWhoa - JJ McCarty is a system QB.  He is not better than Maye or Williams.  McCarthy is Christian Ponder or Jake Locker.  Do Not Want

He sidearms a lot of passes and although he's accurate, the velocity isn't what I'd like. I need a lot more film on this entire QB class.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 30, 2023, 10:42:24 PMHe sidearms a lot of passes and although he's accurate, the velocity isn't what I'd like. I need a lot more film on this entire QB class.

Yes. I've seen all the scouts who like Williams and think he is generational but, personally, I like Maye better.

People need to remember that Peyton Manning lost big game after big game.  Tee Martin then won a NC the next year.  Josh Allen was big arm, not accurate. Phillip Rivers never won a big game in college and had "funky motion."  Drew Brees was too short.

Forget about wins and losses in college.  Forget that Williams looked bad against the 2 best Ds he faced.  College and pros are different - look at traits. Pocket presence (which is where Daniel Jones failed in college and in pros and why he was not worthy of 6th pick, IMO) is huge.  College games are system based.  Equal system, the more talented team always wins (Hello, Georgia). But really good systems with really good coaches change outcomes in college that is not same as in pros.

This is a really long way to say that JJ McCarthy is more Drew Henson than Tom Brady.