Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 13, 2023, 10:39:23 AMWhy do you suppose he was so successful last year?

Frankly, luck.  The 6-1 start was largely smoke and mirrors.  And a team shouldn't make the playoffs when they are negative on points differential.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 13, 2023, 12:21:00 PMFrankly, luck.  The 6-1 start was largely smoke and mirrors.  And a team shouldn't make the playoffs when they are negative on points differential.

And then so if good luck is not a reflection of good coaching, then would it not make sense to say that bad luck is not a reflection of bad coaching? 

Because Jones reverting to an amateur, losing both of our top 2 QBs to injury, a million OL injuries, Zach Wilson making two plays he never makes, refs not calling PI against Waller, these all feel like bad luck to me.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 09:26:02 AMLet's see if Carl tells it like it is today. I think he exposes all the problems but falls short of being critical of the GM and HC. You don't xxxx where you eat.

The dude works for the Giants media. He's a good guy but he's never going to directly criticize leadership.

I don't think Daboll's 6-1 start last season was luck. I think it was because the regime change gave the team momentum, Daboll was a breath of fresh air after Joe Judge who was possibly the least qualified HC the franchise hired since the early 1970s and looked like a mediocre actor playing a "tough guy" coach on some bad tv movie. In the first half of last season, opposing teams didn't know quite what to expect and the Giants pulled off a bunch of wins because of that, and because things came together for them personnel-wise. Also, Jones played to his full potential, and with Barkley back, the team clicked, for a while.

Once teams caught on to what the Giants were doing, on offense and defense, it all came to a screeching halt. Right now, these coaches are clearly fresh out of ideas. Daboll looks like a guy who just doesn't know what to do. He is making poor decisions and is unable to explain them in his pressers. Sorry, it's not about De Vito. The Giants have fielded bad QBs in the past. I mean really bad. But even then they were competitive. De Vito didn't give up 49 points yesterday. I remember bad seasons but I don't remember seasons with blowouts like this, the game being over in the 1st quarter and just getting worse from there. Games where there's no hope at all. The Giants were often losers, but they were tragic losers, fighting hard. Even in the 70s. This feels different.

May I remind everyone that this season is far from over. They are 2-8 and have 7 more games to play. Things could get much uglier. If they just get blown out in every game - and that could happen - I'm sorry but all your declarations about how De Vito sucks and no coach could win with him, or about how you don't fire another coach after two seasons, or all the other stuff, go right out the window. You can't have a team lose game after game by 30-40 points. Especially if it happens at Met Life. You don't even need a head coach for that. You can get a similar result with the players coaching themselves.

If the Giants manage to play competitive football down the stretch and get a couple more wins in the the process, finishing 4-13 but giving the fans some hope to cling to for next season, Daboll survives. But let's say the Giants lose their rest of their games in blowouts - sorry but that's not tenable, even for a stiff like John Mara. Schoen, who is still much better at his job than Gettleman was, might be told that he has more time to try to right the ship and he and Mara go shopping for yet another coach, and they draft J J McCarthy or Drake. They will probably get the head coach hire wrong again, but that's another story. 

I was and as of today, still in favor of keeping Daboll despite how poor a job he has done up to now And yes, injuries, lack of talent, bad luck, etc, etc, he has done a very poor job of coaching this season. Now if the losses continue as they have; blowouts without being competitive, I'm not so sure I can support him going forward. The problem is, has been, and will continue to be ownership. His whispers have influenced hiring and even drafting. And these are the results. The only respite we Giant fans have had from the horrors of the Mara family and their lack of understanding team building in the 20th and 21st Century was when the commissioner forced a GM on them. Other than that, they have been a terribly run franchise.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on November 13, 2023, 01:01:34 PMIf the Giants manage to play competitive football down the stretch and get a couple more wins in the the process, finishing 4-13 but giving the fans some hope to cling to for next season, Daboll survives. But let's say the Giants lose their rest of their games in blowouts - sorry but that's not tenable, even for a stiff like John Mara. Schoen, who is still much better at his job than Gettleman was, might be told that he has more time to try to right the ship and he and Mara go shopping for yet another coach, and they draft J J McCarthy or Drake. They will probably get the head coach hire wrong again, but that's another story. 

The team went 9-7-1 last year and won a playoff game. They brought back most of the same roster with a few upgrades and now they're awful. What would winning an extra game or two do or prove to you? In all likelihood, they can hang around in a few games the rest of the way and will get blown out by the Eagles twice. That's what happens when you're on your 3rd string QB. It becomes very difficult to compete in this league.

Last year's offensive success was largely smoke and mirrors. Like you said, they got the most they could out of Daniel Jones, which is kind of a glaring indictment of Daniel Jones. That said, you can only rely on the coaches scheming your way to success for so long. This offense is bad and would be bad with anyone at the helm. When that happens, the defense can only hold out for so long and ends up on the field most of the game. People need to stop expecting magic out of coaches and start living in reality. A different coach wouldn't magically make this team more competitive.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 12:31:05 PM

You know I respect these gentlemen, but they were on the DJ bandwagon until it was over. They influence their followers too. Guarantee you that as soon as they change course on Daboll, their flock does too.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:04:19 PMYou know I respect these gentlemen, but they were on the DJ bandwagon until it was over. They influence their followers too. Guarantee you that as soon as they change course on Daboll, their flock does too.

Considering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:09:08 PMConsidering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making. 

The point is they said that he was playing the worst football of his career. Sorry, I should have known you were still on that bandwagon.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:15:59 PMThe point is they said that he was playing the worst football of his career. Sorry, I should have known you were still on that bandwagon.

I have never been a fan of "I told you so" posting, and I am even less of a fan of negating everything off of half a dozen games under the worst conditions.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:17:25 PMI have never been a fan of "I told you so" posting, and I am even less of a fan of negating everything off of half a dozen games under the worst conditions.

You asked and btw, he's a coach killer. I said it two years ago and held out hope. He's hopeless Rich. Give it up.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:20:03 PMYou asked and btw, he's a coach killer. I said it two years ago and held out hope. He's hopeless Rich. Give it up.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to my different opinion.   We can disagree, but it's not appropriate to put others down for having a different opinion.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:24:43 PMYou are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to my different opinion.   We can disagree, but it's not appropriate to put others down for having a different opinion.

Not putting you down. You're still on the bandwagon. Calling a spade a spade. Your wisecrack comment says it all. "Considering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making." Who's putting who down Rich?

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:31:40 PMNot putting you down. You're still on the bandwagon. Calling a spade a spade. Your wisecrack comment says it all. "Considering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making." Who's putting who down Rich?

That wasn't a wisecrack; it was my effort to try and keep things respectful.   To suggest that people who were "on the DJ bandwagon" are flawed or don't know what they are talking about is, as I suggested, inappropriate, especially in light of injury issues.  We always preach to be respectful and allow all viewpoints, and that comment seemed to be the antithesis of what we preach.