Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 17, 2024, 09:20:42 AMCome on Rich, you've been pushing this player and all in like you have been for Daniel Jones for years. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just that it creates 17 pages of argument.

Do you want to know why I think it's premature and unfair to judge this QB at this point after all the other reasons I gave? I'll lay it out for you but I will say that it's again premature until after the Combine where we will have more information and be able to have a more complete package.

JJ has some nice fundamental attributes that will serve him well and his age as you've said a few times, gives him the opportunity for a nice upside. He has good throwing mechanics and although he is athletic and can run, he's been coached to move within the pocket or outside it to give a play time to develop when the pocket collapses or for a Receiver to get open downfield. While going so however, he is the antithesis of Bo Nix. Nix will take the short open Receiver, while JJ will look to that mid to below deep range for the completion.

Still he has a good completion percentage because at that range he has the ability to fit a ball in tight spaces. However while doing this he can be inconsistent in his accuracy. Although he reads the field well and has good anticipation, he has a habit or tendency to lock on to his primary Receiver and at the next level, bird dogging or DJ'ing his Receiver it will lead to interceptions.

He has never been asked to be the Driver of that Offense but with him they win games because he has been an excellent Game Manager. That's not a slight, but at the next level, this is a passing league and very good to Elite QB's win Champions when Defenses raise their level of play. Michigan drives the ball on the ground and mixes in the passing game and it's worked well for them.

His Offensive Line was not as good at Pass Protection as the 2022 team and it's evident that although he's got nice pocket presence, he can fail at sensing a Defender closing in on him. Not that he's bad under pressure because he's good under pressure, it's just that at the next level, the pressure will result in turnovers, errant passes and sacks because he lacks a short game. He also lacks touch in that short game. Another DJ trait.

He has a good arm but not a great arm and his deep passes over 40 years drop off.

A lot of this is correctable or not. It's been five years and Daniel Jones still reverts. On the other hand other QB's have.

I remember that Maryland game and if you haven't watched it, I suggest you do so. It illustrates how he can be inconsistent. It was his worst game but it unfortunately sticks in my head. He burned bad teams but wasn't the driver against good teams. The exception was the Penn St. game. 8 attempts for 60 yards.

From what I've seen, I have Daniel Jones flashbacks where I felt he would be able to grow into an excellent QB. Even after the multiple turnovers his rookie season, his production was very good. Unfortunately when reigned in, he became exposed.

This is why I don't think it's fair to evaluate him based on all this. He needed to leave Michigan and go somewhere where he had a chance to develop and show what he could do. I think as a true Junior, he should have stayed one more year and in 2025 would have the chance to be the number two QB of that Draft and challenge Sanders for the Crown.

Instead he chose to move on because Harbaugh was leaving and he may have based his decision in that uncertainty. To me that's a potential Red Flag. Not a Red Flag, a potential one.

I would take a chance on him if he drops to the Mid First Round and trade the two Second Round picks to get him because of his age and his potential but most likely they won't have that opportunity. There are too many QB needy teams sitting there.

It's a shame because he could sit a year behind Jones and hopefully not be forced on the field too soon.

Based on everything I see, I would not pick him at six.

He did not need to leave Michigan.  That's a ridiculous comment.  His OC is now his head coach and his QB coach is now the OC.  Their TE coach is now the OL coach.  The RB and WR coaches are likely going to be the same guys.  On the offensive side of the ball, there is tremendous continuity.  Donovan Edward, their best pass catching RB is coming back.  So many other offensive players as well.  I think Michigan will be less successful in 2024 but it won't be because of the offensive side of the ball.  Jayden Daniels won the Heisman on a 3 loss LSU team.  JJ got advice from Harbaugh and the NFL about his draft stock being 1st round.  If they say you are in the 1st round, you leave for the NFL.  I am sure Harbaugh said, "JJ your stock will only go up once the NFL starts to see your tape and get you in a room." 

Quote from: Philosophers on February 17, 2024, 09:59:57 AMHe did not need to leave Michigan.  That's a ridiculous comment.  His OC is now his head coach and his QB coach is now the OC.  Their TE coach is now the OL coach.  The RB and WR coaches are likely going to be the same guys.  On the offensive side of the ball, there is tremendous continuity.  Donovan Edward, their best pass catching RB is coming back.  So many other offensive players as well.  I think Michigan will be less successful in 2024 but it won't be because of the offensive side of the ball.  Jayden Daniels won the Heisman on a 3 loss LSU team.  JJ got advice from Harbaugh and the NFL about his draft stock being 1st round.  If they say you are in the 1st round, you leave for the NFL.  I am sure Harbaugh said, "JJ your stock will only go up once the NFL starts to see your tape and get you in a room." 

Don't mince my words and call them ridiculous. I said he may have chosen to leave based on uncertainty and a potential Red Flag. I also said he should have left Michigan for a more pass aggressive Offense. You don't know what's in his head either. You're another one who's all in on this kid and you don't see me cherry picking your posts... yet

@Ed Vette

I watched 5 years of Daniel Jones and plenty of tape on JJ.  I can't think of a good NFL comparison to JJ, but I can say Daniel Jones and McCarthy have little in common traits and play style.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 17, 2024, 10:19:47 AMDon't mince my words and call them ridiculous. I said he may have chosen to leave based on uncertainty and a potential Red Flag. I also said he should have left Michigan for a more pass aggressive Offense. You don't know what's in his head either. You're another one who's all in on this kid and you don't see me cherry picking your posts... yet

Ed,

You seem just as strongly opposed to JJ at 6 as the people you say are all in on McCarthy support drafting him at 6.   

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 17, 2024, 10:19:47 AMDon't mince my words and call them ridiculous. I said he may have chosen to leave based on uncertainty and a potential Red Flag. I also said he should have left Michigan for a more pass aggressive Offense. You don't know what's in his head either. You're another one who's all in on this kid and you don't see me cherry picking your posts... yet

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 17, 2024, 10:19:47 AMDon't mince my words and call them ridiculous. I said he may have chosen to leave based on uncertainty and a potential Red Flag. I also said he should have left Michigan for a more pass aggressive Offense. You don't know what's in his head either. You're another one who's all in on this kid and you don't see me cherry picking your posts... yet

Ed - these are your words. "Instead he chose to move on because Harbaugh was leaving and he may have based his decision in that uncertainty."

I didnt mince anything.  I objected only to this part of your post and commented only about this.

I also have not advocated the Giants taking him.  I have said that mentally and with the coaching he has had, I think he is ahead of the other 3 QBs.

Apologies for saying ridiculous

Based on his draft projection (1st round) and the fact he played in a NFL style offense, plus Harbaugh leaving, he made the right choice declaring in my book.

Also, many Qbs get upward movement towards the draft and JJ will too. Now it's a crap shoot with the team that picks him; can they maximize his ability? But he will have interest.

JJ McCarthy All-22 Film Review vs. Michigan State

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 17, 2024, 11:40:59 AMEd,

You seem just as strongly opposed to JJ at 6 as the people you say are all in on McCarthy support drafting him at 6. 

That would be accurate at this time but that can change after the Combine. I think it's too early to go all in on him. Same with Nix and Penix. I'm not even sold 100% on the other three. As I've said, they have some issues too but I at least see them as players who have shown something this past season that might be worth the gamble. Doesn't matter what anyone thinks. They will do what they do and after this past season, I lost some confidence in their decisions as well as the Franchise who has burned through three HC's not counting TC and two GM's in a dog's age.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 17, 2024, 12:23:06 PMJJ McCarthy All-22 Film Review vs. Michigan State

Everybody has a podcast and is a QB expert it seems. I'm waiting for the QB school to put his out.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 17, 2024, 12:30:37 PMEverybody has a podcast and is a QB expert it seems. I'm waiting for the QB school to put his out.

Not everyone has access to the all 22.  That is the value here

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 17, 2024, 12:30:37 PMEverybody has a podcast and is a QB expert it seems. I'm waiting for the QB school to put his out.

For the record, I have been a big fan of McCarthy since the beginning of the season, but ED is right. Anyone can have a podcast. I have been right and wrong on many players. It also helps to guess a lot and point out the guys you got right. This same video on McCarthy, this guy said Bryce Young was "the man"

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 17, 2024, 01:16:43 PMFor the record, I have been a big fan of McCarthy since the beginning of the season, but ED is right. Anyone can have a podcast. I have been right and wrong on many players. It also helps to guess a lot and point out the guys you got right. This same video on McCarthy, this guy said Bryce Young was "the man"

Neither you nor Ed explained why there isn't value in an all-22 tape of all of JJ's throws from one of his games.  You can mute the commentary for all I care, it's about getting quality views.

With some of the people's strong reactions and confrontations, I can see why people say that McCarthy is so polarizing.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 17, 2024, 12:50:12 PMNot everyone has access to the all 22.  That is the value here

All the film review podcasts have all 22.

This quite laughable. Thread reaks of desperation to be correct - 18 pages for a draft project that might not even land on the Giants.

I guess those accusing others of hating on Jones for the last 11 months are getting out in front of the next bus really early. Good for them.

Although the same posters were telling us the future was sorted, and doing cartwheels, fewer than 12 months ago.

Still it's better to be first, than correct (apparently).

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on February 17, 2024, 06:21:14 PMThis quite laughable. Thread reaks of desperation to be correct - 18 pages for a draft project that might not even land on the Giants.

I guess those accusing others of hating on Jones for the last 11 months are getting out in front of the next bus really early. Good for them.

Although the same posters were telling us the future was sorted, and doing cartwheels, fewer than 12 months ago.

Still it's better to be first, than correct (apparently).

That's a lot of anger