Big Blue Huddle

I know many here want QB prospects Williams, Mcdaniels and Maye, and I understand, and I get it, as it would be nice get one of them, but realistically the Giants have little to no chance at any of them.

After watching the first 6 games, the O-line was being manhandled and DJ had no time and no shot. If you want to see a good example of this, go and rewatch the Seahawks game, he literally had to play perfect, ball coming out in 2 seconds or less, and even then, it would have been extremely difficult to win. This was noted by the announcers, Aikman and Buck.

The first five out of six opponents were:
 
A) Cowboys - #5 defense
B) 49ers - #3 defense
C) Seahawks
D) Dolphins
E) Bills - #4 defense (Tyrod started)

The team was 1-5 at this point, as they faced a buzzsaw the first 6 games of the season. DJ throws a good ball, has a strong arm, and is accurate enough to win with.

And for those saying Tyrod was better, he put up a whopping 9 points against the Bills defense, and 14 points against the terrible 4-13 Commanders the following week, so he isn't the long-term answer either.

I also do not think panicking and picking a new QB at 6 just because you need one is the right answer either, that just makes things worse, especially if you get it wrong.

So here is my recommendation, feel free to agree or disagree with this, but this is what I would do.

With the first 3 picks use them on a #1 WR and beef up the O line with the other two picks.

Since DJ is already under contract for the 2024 season, let him play it out and see what he can do when you give him more time, so he can throw some deeper passes. You may actually be surprised that the DJ of 2022 comes back, and him and the team performs well next season, but let's just see.

If they are terrible again, then at that point you can unload the DJ contract, and then look at new QB's in the following seasons 2025-2026 without having to give away the farm for one of them.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but that is what I would do, curious your thoughts?

 

I'm on board.

Your point is finding a multitude of excuses for why Jones didn't play like a competent decent QB? Tyrod outplayed him (barely) at a much less contract.

Jones is the 6th highest paid cap space player next season and has done absolutely nothing to even come close to his bonuses. What is your point?

The sooner we get rid of him, the sooner we get to a team with winning culture.

sxd: Good post, and I agree with all of it. Bob

Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 18, 2024, 11:20:32 PMI know many here want QB prospects Williams, Mcdaniels and Maye, and I understand, and I get it, as it would be nice get one of them, but realistically the Giants have little to no chance at any of them.

After watching the first 6 games, the O-line was being manhandled and DJ had no time and no shot. If you want to see a good example of this, go and rewatch the Seahawks game, he literally had to play perfect, ball coming out in 2 seconds or less, and even then, it would have been extremely difficult to win. This was noted by the announcers, Aikman and Buck.

The first five out of six opponents were:
 
A) Cowboys - #5 defense
B) 49ers - #3 defense
C) Seahawks
D) Dolphins
E) Bills - #4 defense (Tyrod started)

The team was 1-5 at this point, as they faced a buzzsaw the first 6 games of the season. DJ throws a good ball, has a strong arm, and is accurate enough to win with.

And for those saying Tyrod was better, he put up a whopping 9 points against the Bills defense, and 14 points against the terrible 4-13 Commanders the following week, so he isn't the long-term answer either.

I also do not think panicking and picking a new QB at 6 just because you need one is the right answer either, that just makes things worse, especially if you get it wrong.

So here is my recommendation, feel free to agree or disagree with this, but this is what I would do.

With the first 3 picks use them on a #1 WR and beef up the O line with the other two picks.

Since DJ is already under contract for the 2024 season, let him play it out and see what he can do when you give him more time, so he can throw some deeper passes. You may actually be surprised that the DJ of 2022 comes back, and him and the team performs well next season, but let's just see.

If they are terrible again, then at that point you can unload the DJ contract, and then look at new QB's in the following seasons 2025-2026 without having to give away the farm for one of them.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but that is what I would do, curious your thoughts?

 

You nailed it.  Great idea.  I remember the Dallas game like it was yesterday.  It got so bad I stopped watching the game and just kept my eyes on the right side of the OL.  In so many instances, the 9 tech was not even getting touched as he came around the RT.  Even when passes were made without a sack, he was coming in so often unchecked.

No QB will play well under those conditions.  They may play slightly better than DJ but we need more than that.  We need an offense that can protect the QB, then let him throw downfield.

I am onboard with taking a QB this year only if he is going to be a projected starter within the 1st year as we need a rookie contract to utilize, however, we absolutely need a a stud WR1 and more starting help on the OL especially the right side.

I keyed in on Neal the whole season when he played.  His inability to block wide edge rushers is due to an inability to fire out at the snap count as oppose to a split second later and an inabiity to simply move faster and more efficiently.  I am not sure that can be taught.  I think it is time to move on from Neal.  Trust me that is not easy for me to say as I was banging on the drum for this kid leading up to the draft and thought this year he'd make a leap.  At a minimum, the Giants need to bring in competition for his spot, but that competition better be able to stop 9 tech edge rushers.  If Neal beats him out, it's because he was fantastic, not because the competition was bad.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 18, 2024, 11:20:32 PMI know many here want QB prospects Williams, Mcdaniels and Maye, and I understand, and I get it, as it would be nice get one of them, but realistically the Giants have little to no chance at any of them.

After watching the first 6 games, the O-line was being manhandled and DJ had no time and no shot. If you want to see a good example of this, go and rewatch the Seahawks game, he literally had to play perfect, ball coming out in 2 seconds or less, and even then, it would have been extremely difficult to win. This was noted by the announcers, Aikman and Buck.

The first five out of six opponents were:
 
A) Cowboys - #5 defense
B) 49ers - #3 defense
C) Seahawks
D) Dolphins
E) Bills - #4 defense (Tyrod started)

The team was 1-5 at this point, as they faced a buzzsaw the first 6 games of the season. DJ throws a good ball, has a strong arm, and is accurate enough to win with.

And for those saying Tyrod was better, he put up a whopping 9 points against the Bills defense, and 14 points against the terrible 4-13 Commanders the following week, so he isn't the long-term answer either.

I also do not think panicking and picking a new QB at 6 just because you need one is the right answer either, that just makes things worse, especially if you get it wrong.

So here is my recommendation, feel free to agree or disagree with this, but this is what I would do.

With the first 3 picks use them on a #1 WR and beef up the O line with the other two picks.

Since DJ is already under contract for the 2024 season, let him play it out and see what he can do when you give him more time, so he can throw some deeper passes. You may actually be surprised that the DJ of 2022 comes back, and him and the team performs well next season, but let's just see.

If they are terrible again, then at that point you can unload the DJ contract, and then look at new QB's in the following seasons 2025-2026 without having to give away the farm for one of them.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but that is what I would do, curious your thoughts?

It was a brutal start of a schedule. The Giants seems totally unprepared and not on the same level as Dallas. We figured going in that Seattle would be a winnable game. I was surprised to win the Cards game after the abysmal start.

Since almost everyone has their radar on the QB class it's not a bad idea to scout our own QB, since it's an out year coming in his contract.

Keep in mind that DJ was training and practicing all preseason with the ones to be the starter. Tyrod was tossed in with much less preparation.

Reviewing your recommendations, a few things come to mind.

Drafting OLine plug and play starters doesn't usually work out immediately and they can take a year to develop. For the long term it could be a solution but they don't always work out.

If the OLine and DJ have the same breakdowns, will drafting another Receiver help in evaluating DJ?

If DJ fails to work out, what is the plan for the rest if the 2024 season and 2025. That QB Class of 2025 at this point looks weak and lacks depth with one exception. Does that put the Franchise back another three years? What happens to Schoen and Daboll at that point? Does it become another do over?

That said, I'm going to take you up on 2023 film review of the Offense and make some comparisons. Try to determine if injuries created challenging situations for TT and Tommy or if things settled down where, DJ would have had improved performance if he had stayed healthy.

Since we are talking DJ and Health, is that any concern for you? When do you think he comes back to start? Will his latest injury diminish his ability to escape pressure and to use his legs to gain yards? Who would you bring in as a backup QB? A potential starter and pay the price or run with Tommy and put that money toward a veteran and proven Guard?

Thanks for the effort and your perspective. 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 18, 2024, 11:20:32 PMI know many here want QB prospects Williams, Mcdaniels and Maye, and I understand, and I get it, as it would be nice get one of them, but realistically the Giants have little to no chance at any of them.

After watching the first 6 games, the O-line was being manhandled and DJ had no time and no shot. If you want to see a good example of this, go and rewatch the Seahawks game, he literally had to play perfect, ball coming out in 2 seconds or less, and even then, it would have been extremely difficult to win. This was noted by the announcers, Aikman and Buck.

The first five out of six opponents were:
 
A) Cowboys - #5 defense
B) 49ers - #3 defense
C) Seahawks
D) Dolphins
E) Bills - #4 defense (Tyrod started)

The team was 1-5 at this point, as they faced a buzzsaw the first 6 games of the season. DJ throws a good ball, has a strong arm, and is accurate enough to win with.

And for those saying Tyrod was better, he put up a whopping 9 points against the Bills defense, and 14 points against the terrible 4-13 Commanders the following week, so he isn't the long-term answer either.

I also do not think panicking and picking a new QB at 6 just because you need one is the right answer either, that just makes things worse, especially if you get it wrong.

So here is my recommendation, feel free to agree or disagree with this, but this is what I would do.

With the first 3 picks use them on a #1 WR and beef up the O line with the other two picks.

Since DJ is already under contract for the 2024 season, let him play it out and see what he can do when you give him more time, so he can throw some deeper passes. You may actually be surprised that the DJ of 2022 comes back, and him and the team performs well next season, but let's just see.

If they are terrible again, then at that point you can unload the DJ contract, and then look at new QB's in the following seasons 2025-2026 without having to give away the farm for one of them.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but that is what I would do, curious your thoughts?

 

You've got my vote, as somewhere in there rings the tune, "Fix the damn line!"

Peace!

I think Jones has bad conditions around him, but I also think he's simply not good enough to build our future around. People can dance around this any way they want to, but the fact remains he was outplayed by the likes of Tyrod and DeVito with the same (or very similar) supporting cast. I'm not suggesting those last two were good, but with Jones earning many multiples more than both of them, it shouldn't have even been remotely close let alone Jones being the worst of the three, which he was. We are going into year six with this guy. I feel like we have seen enough. At least I have. With that said, we're stuck with him for this year, clearly, as nobody in their right mind would dream of taking him off our hands. So I'm fine with giving him yet another shot, if only because we don't have a choice.

I don't need to re-watch anything myself. I watch games pretty closely in real time. It was bad enough watching those games once. I have seen enough with Jones. I know he's not the long term answer. The injuries alone make that the case, but I have seen enough performance-wise to feel the way that I do. My mind won't be changed by watching those games again. It will be reinforced.

Quote from: jimc on February 19, 2024, 05:33:55 AMI'm on board.

Ah thanks for saying that, I'm glad we agree

Quote from: Bob In PA on February 19, 2024, 07:35:53 AMsxd: Good post, and I agree with all of it. Bob

Ah Bob, thank you so much, I'm also glad we agree, and please hang in there

Quote from: Philosophers on February 19, 2024, 07:55:55 AMYou nailed it.  Great idea.  I remember the Dallas game like it was yesterday.  It got so bad I stopped watching the game and just kept my eyes on the right side of the OL.  In so many instances, the 9 tech was not even getting touched as he came around the RT.  Even when passes were made without a sack, he was coming in so often unchecked.

No QB will play well under those conditions.  They may play slightly better than DJ but we need more than that.  We need an offense that can protect the QB, then let him throw downfield.

I am onboard with taking a QB this year only if he is going to be a projected starter within the 1st year as we need a rookie contract to utilize, however, we absolutely need a a stud WR1 and more starting help on the OL especially the right side.

I keyed in on Neal the whole season when he played.  His inability to block wide edge rushers is due to an inability to fire out at the snap count as oppose to a split second later and an inabiity to simply move faster and more efficiently.  I am not sure that can be taught.  I think it is time to move on from Neal.  Trust me that is not easy for me to say as I was banging on the drum for this kid leading up to the draft and thought this year he'd make a leap.  At a minimum, the Giants need to bring in competition for his spot, but that competition better be able to stop 9 tech edge rushers.  If Neal beats him out, it's because he was fantastic, not because the competition was bad.

Quote from: Philosophers on February 19, 2024, 07:55:55 AMYou nailed it.  Great idea.  I remember the Dallas game like it was yesterday.  It got so bad I stopped watching the game and just kept my eyes on the right side of the OL.  In so many instances, the 9 tech was not even getting touched as he came around the RT.  Even when passes were made without a sack, he was coming in so often unchecked.

No QB will play well under those conditions.  They may play slightly better than DJ but we need more than that.  We need an offense that can protect the QB, then let him throw downfield.

I am onboard with taking a QB this year only if he is going to be a projected starter within the 1st year as we need a rookie contract to utilize, however, we absolutely need a a stud WR1 and more starting help on the OL especially the right side.

I keyed in on Neal the whole season when he played.  His inability to block wide edge rushers is due to an inability to fire out at the snap count as oppose to a split second later and an inabiity to simply move faster and more efficiently.  I am not sure that can be taught.  I think it is time to move on from Neal.  Trust me that is not easy for me to say as I was banging on the drum for this kid leading up to the draft and thought this year he'd make a leap.  At a minimum, the Giants need to bring in competition for his spot, but that competition better be able to stop 9 tech edge rushers.  If Neal beats him out, it's because he was fantastic, not because the competition was bad.

Philosophers,

Thank you so much, and I am also happy we agree.

Everything you said was true, and the right side of the line was atrocious, and your points about Neal I concur.

Let's beef up the right side of that O line and then lets see what we got.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 19, 2024, 08:49:42 AMI think Jones has bad conditions around him, but I also think he's simply not good enough to build our future around. People can dance around this any way they want to, but the fact remains he was outplayed by the likes of Tyrod and DeVito with the same (or very similar) supporting cast. I'm not suggesting those last two were good, but with Jones earning many multiples more than both of them, it shouldn't have even been remotely close let alone Jones being the worst of the three, which he was. We are going into year six with this guy. I feel like we have seen enough. At least I have. With that said, we're stuck with him for this year, clearly, as nobody in their right mind would dream of taking him off our hands. So I'm fine with giving him yet another shot, if only because we don't have a choice.

I don't need to re-watch anything myself. I watch games pretty closely in real time. It was bad enough watching those games once. I have seen enough with Jones. I know he's not the long term answer. The injuries alone make that the case, but I have seen enough performance-wise to feel the way that I do. My mind won't be changed by watching those games again. It will be reinforced.

That isn't exactly a "fact"; in fact, it's not even effectively true.



CINO
@sjs0816
Tyrod & Devito had a completely different Offensive line.
I don't know why this is hard

DJs oline for majority of his games
LT: Ezuedu LG:Lemiex/Mayfield C:Bredeson RG:McKethan RT:Neal/Mayfield

Tyrod/Devito Oline
LT:Thomas LG:Pugh C:JMS RG:Bredeson RT:Phillips

These different lines led to very different times for pressure to appear and how often pressure appeared.



https://x.com/sjs0816/status/1758581458032054504?s=20

Too many excuses for too long. Jones if healthy will play this year, but a plan must be put in place for 2025 without him. Otherwise it will be Groundhog Day all over again.

Quote from: katkavage on February 19, 2024, 10:10:07 AMToo many excuses for too long.

What exactly does that mean?   Are you saying franchise QBs should be top 10 with the worst protection and mediocre receivers?   If that is actually true, why even invest in the O-line?  Why do NFL teams spend so much on true number-one WRs? 

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 19, 2024, 10:15:51 AMWhat exactly does that mean?   Are you saying franchise QBs should be top 10 with the worst protection and mediocre receivers?   If that is actually true, why even invest in the O-line?  Why do NFL teams spend so much on true number-one WRs? 

It means at some point you got to show something. That's all. Rise above. Five years and still...the same old same old. And no this does not also excuse the pitiful OL play.