Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 10:44:32 AMMore like another year for the detractors to ignore the offensive context in which DJ has had to operate in for his whole career.

Maybe you haven't capitulated but I'm done with all the excuses. I supported his draft pick because he was the best QB to choose from. 2 years later it was obvious what we had, 6 years later I see him here the next two years or more. He's going to need a top-ten Oline to thrive here. Otherwise, it's dink and dunk, dink and dunk... freeze and duck, freeze and duck. I'm very disappointed in this regime right now. Maybe after a few wins, I'll be in a better mood. Unless of course, the schedule is a 2023 killer to start the season, the oline fails, he get injured through no fault of the Oline and the Defense fails to defend. Did I miss anything?   

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 09:31:48 AMFor years, the Giants have substituted hope for plans when it comes to the O-line, and unfortunately, this year is no different.  The Giants hope Evan Neal can significantly improve (at least they have Eluemunor if Neal fails).  The Giants hope JMS can play significantly better than he did last season.  The Giants hope they can find a quality second guard to team with Runyan.

If hope succeeds and the new O-line coach proves to be a difference maker, this unit has a ceiling of average to high average.  Should it turn out that Bobby Johnson was unfairly blamed or both Neal and JMS don't significantly improve, this unit could be at or near the bottom again (especially if injury-prone Thomas misses significant time).

Let's not also forget the new strength and conditioning staff, led by Aaron Wellman, Frank Piraino and Drew Wilson running the show behind the scenes. They are cognizant of the injury history of this team and have already put action plans into place in order to address them and, hopefully, correct and prevent them going forward.

Peace!

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 10:56:25 AMMaybe you haven't capitulated but I'm done with all the excuses. I supported his draft pick because he was the best QB to choose from. 2 years later it was obvious what we had, 6 years later I see him here the next two years or more. He's going to need a top-ten Oline to thrive here. Otherwise, it's dink and dunk, dink and dunk... freeze and duck, freeze and duck. I'm very disappointed in this regime right now. Maybe after a few wins, I'll be in a better mood. Unless of course, the schedule is a 2023 killer to start the season, the oline fails, he get injured through no fault of the Oline and the Defense fails to defend. Did I miss anything?   

It's not a question of capitulation.  I'm not even a big Jones supporter.  What I am is an opponent of putting all of the blame for being disappointed with the regime for the the last 6, hell 10, years on his his shoulders and the ridiculousness of calling the sea of incompetence he's has to swim in excuses.  There is a difference between excuses and explanations.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 11:06:21 AMIt's not a question of capitulation.  I'm not even a big Jones supporter.  What I am is an opponent of putting all of the blame for being disappointed with the regime for the the last 6, hell 10, years on his his shoulders and the ridiculousness of calling the sea of incompetence he's has to swim in excuses.  There is a difference between excuses and explanations.

Actually there are no excuses for the 30th ranked Defense, A failed Oline since 2013 and stupid GM decisions like drafting a RB with the second pick of the draft. How about an involved owner? The difference here is that these Jones lovers take his criticisms personally for some reason. Sometimes ya just gotta admit you were wrong. Mark my words, Jones will win games as I always said he could and be a better Regular season QB than Eli, and then choke in the playoffs.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 10:56:25 AMMaybe you haven't capitulated but I'm done with all the excuses. I supported his draft pick because he was the best QB to choose from. 2 years later it was obvious what we had, 6 years later I see him here the next two years or more. He's going to need a top-ten Oline to thrive here. Otherwise, it's dink and dunk, dink and dunk... freeze and duck, freeze and duck. I'm very disappointed in this regime right now. Maybe after a few wins, I'll be in a better mood. Unless of course, the schedule is a 2023 killer to start the season, the oline fails, he get injured through no fault of the Oline and the Defense fails to defend. Did I miss anything? 

PFF Rankings

year -- Pass blocking --- receiving
2023 -- 32nd -- 32nd
2022 -- 24th -- 27th
2021 -- 30th -- 31st
2020 -- 32nd -- 25th
2019 -- 16th -- 17th

The best DJ had was his rookie season when his on-field support was slightly below the mean.  The rest of the time DJ has had bottom 3rd (and even dead last) support both in protection and receiving.

I don't see how, from that data, we can conclude that DJ needs "top 10" to be effective.  I think accusations of making excuses hide the unrealistic expectations of those making the accusations.

DJ is like a car you stumble across with two flat tires.  The engine starts, but that's all you can learn about the car because you can't drive it with two flats.  Now, it's possible that once you fix the flats, it will turn out that the transmission is shot, and the car is still useless.  However, until you fix the flat tires, there is no way to know what the car fully does.  That's what you have with DJ.  Until you give him half a chance, you can't say with any certainty what you have.

Quote from: Trench on May 14, 2024, 10:31:50 AMPFF = Click bait

It's not just PFF.  You'd be hard pressed to find a projected 2024 ranking of o-lines that doesn't have the Giants in the bottom 5.  I've looked.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 11:22:42 AMPFF Rankings

year -- Pass blocking --- receiving
2023 -- 32nd -- 32nd
2022 -- 24th -- 27th
2021 -- 30th -- 31st
2020 -- 32nd -- 25th
2019 -- 16th -- 17th

The best DJ had was his rookie season when his on-field support was slightly below the mean.  The rest of the time DJ has had bottom 3rd (and even dead last) support both in protection and receiving.

I don't see how, from that data, we can conclude that DJ needs "top 10" to be effective.  I think accusations of making excuses hide the unrealistic expectations of those making the accusations.

DJ is like a car you stumble across with two flat tires.  The engine starts, but that's all you can learn about the car because you can't drive it with two flats.  Now, it's possible that once you fix the flats, it will turn out that the transmission is shot, and the car is still useless.  However, until you fix the flat tires, there is no way to know what the car fully does.  That's what you have with DJ.  Until you give him half a chance, you can't say with any certainty what you have.

2019, a middling Oline and a 4-12 season. Then the dink and dunk of 2022, only to get spanked by the Eagles in the playoffs. You glossed over the point. He will NEVER win this team a SB Trophy. Do I need to repeat myself? OK
"Jones will win games as I always said he could and be a better Regular season QB than Eli, and then choke in the playoffs."

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 11:44:48 AM2019, a middling Oline and a 4-12 season. Then the dink and dunk of 2022, only to get spanked by the Eagles in the playoffs. You glossed over the point. He will NEVER win this team a SB Trophy. Do I need to repeat myself? OK
"Jones will win games as I always said he could and be a better Regular season QB than Eli, and then choke in the playoffs."

How did Jones get to the position to be "spanked" by the Eagles in the playoffs?

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 12:05:02 PMHow did Jones get to the position to be "spanked" by the Eagles in the playoffs?

By a brilliant Offensive drafted by Daboll to disguise Jones deficiencies and work to his Run Strength. Saquon, Dink, Dunk, Read option. Then at the end of the season the league figured it out and they got lucky to face the lousy Vikings Defense. How did those last eight games go again?

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 12:24:42 PMBy a brilliant Offensive drafted by Daboll to disguise Jones deficiencies and work to his Run Strength. Saquon, Dink, Dunk, Read option. Then at the end of the season the league figured it out and they got lucky to face the lousy Vikings Defense. How did those last eight games go again?

It seems like you refuse to give Jones any credit for the team's success, but are more than willing to blame him for the team's shortcomings.

To the last 8 games, to avoid that issue, I will look at how Jones did

From last to earliest

Opponent -- QB rating -- QBR -- PFF grade

Eagles -- 53.8 -- 11.7 -- 46.7
Vikings -- 114.1 -- 82.5 -- 80.9
Colts -- 125.2 -- 97.0 -- 81.9
Vikings -- 92.8 -- 59.1 -- 85.3
Washington -- 77.6 -- 76.8 -- 75.8
Eagles -- 96.1 -- 77.0 -- 78.0
Washington -- 104.3 -- 32.5 -- 68.4
Cowboys -- 88.8 -- 60.9   -- 50.8

So to answer your question, the team didn't do that well, but more often than not Jones played well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 12:38:27 PMIt seems like you refuse to give Jones any credit for the team's success, but are more than willing to blame him for the team's shortcomings.

To the last 8 games, to avoid that issue, I will look at how Jones did

From last to earliest

Opponent -- QB rating -- QBR -- PFF grade

Eagles -- 53.8 -- 11.7 -- 46.7
Vikings -- 114.1 -- 82.5 -- 80.9
Colts -- 125.2 -- 97.0 -- 81.9
Vikings -- 92.8 -- 59.1 -- 85.3
Washington -- 77.6 -- 76.8 -- 75.8
Eagles -- 96.1 -- 77.0 -- 78.0
Washington -- 104.3 -- 32.5 -- 68.4
Cowboys -- 88.8 -- 60.9   -- 50.8

So to answer your question, the team didn't do that well, but more often than not Jones played well.

Thanks to the Vikings and Dolts.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 11:06:21 AMIt's not a question of capitulation.  I'm not even a big Jones supporter.  What I am is an opponent of putting all of the blame for being disappointed with the regime for the the last 6, hell 10, years on his his shoulders and the ridiculousness of calling the sea of incompetence he's has to swim in excuses.  There is a difference between excuses and explanations.

This is factually incorrect. Not ONE PERSON has PUT "ALL the blame" on his shoulders!....not ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS DONE THAT. Ever.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 12:46:19 PMThanks to the Vikings and Dolts.

Two must-win games where Jones did the opposite of choke

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 01:35:39 PMTwo must-win games where Jones did the opposite of choke

Almost 500 yards rushing in those three games where the Giants lost one against teams that have up 25 points a game average. The Vikings had one of the worst passing Defenses in the league that year giving up 4500 yards.

Not bad for a game manager.

Quote from: Trench on May 14, 2024, 01:34:37 PMThis is factually incorrect. Not ONE PERSON has PUT "ALL the blame" on his shoulders!....not ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS DONE THAT. Ever.

Well sure... but are you considering how much easier it is to argue (and take the high ground) against an imagined, wildly-unreasonable person?