Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 10:22:17 AMThank you. Case closed.

Is the case really closed? or maybe you haven't actually researched the point?

Here is your quote:

"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Let me know when you're ready to apologize?

Or do you want to keep up your position?

Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 10:25:22 AMYou're claiming the absence of a statement must mean it's true!? If I proclaim Evan Neal is a terrible RT, does that automatically equate to him being the sole reason for the Giants failures?

Also, where does it say in those statements that DJ won't become an AP by the time he's 35?  I mean, if the absence of a statement is evidence of intent, we can make anything up...

Is it really the absence of a statement? or maybe all I had to do was research the point, which I would encourage you to do.

Here is your quote

"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Let me know when you're ready to apologize?

or do you want to double down on your position?

Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 07:32:35 PMWhen I started this thread it was about the OL and, as usual, it has ended up being a referendum on Daniel Jones, like most other threads.

If anyone cares, what about our 'new and impr oved' OL? Is PFF right and do we still have the worst OL in the league or have we made some significant improvements to make it, at least, average?

I answered your question. Maybe it wasn't loud enough. It's stupid to evaluate an Offensive Line with two new veteran starters, a second year Center, a new Oline Coach and no playing time together. Including how injuries will impact the continuity.

Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 07:32:35 PMWhen I started this thread it was about the OL and, as usual, it has ended up being a referendum on Daniel Jones, like most other threads.

If anyone cares, what about our 'new and impr oved' OL? Is PFF right and do we still have the worst OL in the league or have we made some significant improvements to make it, at least, average?

Lenn,

I am not surprised by the ranking.  The Giants offseason additions were not top echelon guys.  Thomas is the only guy on the line with any credentials for "rankings". 

I think if they had traded for or signed a pro-bowl caliber OL they might have been ranked higher.  They signed a lot of mediocrity and added that to  a group that mostly rated worse than mediocre.

I don't know if they will be better.  I think they could be.  It seemed like most of the signees were better pass blockers than run blockers.  Maybe they can find one thing they do well and have an identity.  That would be an improvement in my opinion. Last year they couldn't run or pass block.  If they pass block well, they might be able to set up the run via the pass.

I'll believe it when it I see it.

Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 04:09:47 PMWell it is in poor taste to make a completely false statement on a message board where we are continually dissecting words and thoughts and then when called out, the answer is it was simply hyperbole. Had it been stated as such in the beginning (or simply admit a mistake was made) we could have avoided a lot of negative back and forth

May I ask who made the false statement?

Here is the quote

"I think the term "we are not a qb away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Are you ready to apologize?

or double down?

choose

I'll wait

Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 15, 2024, 07:59:24 PMMay I ask who made the false statement?

Here is the quote

"I think the term "we are not a qb away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Are you ready to apologize?

or double down?

choose

I'll wait

To be fair I think he was referring to this statement of mine:

QuoteWhat does it mean when he gets blamed for many of the sacks the OL subjects him to, but when a back-up behind a better OL is sacked at an even higher rate we are told that the back-up has better pocket sense?  What does it mean when the woes of the defense are the fault of all the 3 and outs he has, when in actuality the TOP is virtually 50-50?  The fact is that there are posters who have tried to place virtually every team failing at DJ's feet.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 07:50:59 PMI answered your question. Maybe it wasn't loud enough. It's stupid to evaluate an Offensive Line with two new veteran starters, a second year Center, a new Oline Coach and no playing time together. Including how injuries will impact the continuity.

If PFF can tell us we have the worst OL in the league right now, how can they evaluate it and make that statement?

Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 15, 2024, 07:57:24 PMLenn,

I am not surprised by the ranking.  The Giants offseason additions were not top echelon guys.  Thomas is the only guy on the line with any credentials for "rankings". 

I think if they had traded for or signed a pro-bowl caliber OL they might have been ranked higher.  They signed a lot of mediocrity and added that to  a group that mostly rated worse than mediocre.

I don't know if they will be better.  I think they could be.  It seemed like most of the signees were better pass blockers than run blockers.  Maybe they can find one thing they do well and have an identity.  That would be an improvement in my opinion. Last year they couldn't run or pass block.  If they pass block well, they might be able to set up the run via the pass.

I'll believe it when it I see it.

 Me also. But the point being, in a nutshell--WHY"

Why, when we already had the worst OL in the league, was this not addressed, even to the point of bringing in one quality guy to show fans that they are trying?
Yes, these new and hopefully, improved guys, maybe better than last year's crop (they certainly can't be worse), it just boggles my mind that we again are predicted to be at the bottom of the barrel, and management either doesn't care or is sluffing off on their jobs.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 15, 2024, 08:37:50 PMTo be fair I think he was referring to this statement of mine:

SX - all I was trying to convey in this entire thread was nobody said everything was Jones fault. Personally, if you are so interested in research maybe you should go look up the amount of times I said I'm still rooting for him and also the amount of times I said I will be the first on line to admit I was wrong if he balls out. That remains true.

Please I ask you with respect that you try not to put words in my mouth.

Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 07:32:35 PMWhen I started this thread it was about the OL and, as usual, it has ended up being a referendum on Daniel Jones, like most other threads.

If anyone cares, what about our 'new and impr oved' OL? Is PFF right and do we still have the worst OL in the league or have we made some significant improvements to make it, at least, average?

Len,

At this point, it seems wisest to take a wait-and-see approach.  On the surface, there seems to be more hope than plan.  Still, the Giants added some mid-tier and lower-tier veterans and hopefully upgraded their coaching.  The hope is that it all comes together and the team has an adequate O-line, but it's more than fair to say that it remains to be seen.   It's funny, as you pointed out that this ended up being yet another Daniel Jones thread (as usual, the ones making it about Jones were his critics).  Still, the ironic part is that Schoen and Daboll's futures may not hinge on Daniel Jones as much as they will hinge on the O-line, where Schoen has invested heavy amounts of draft and cap capital with literally nothing to show for it.

Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 08:44:15 PMMe also. But the point being, in a nutshell--WHY"

Why, when we already had the worst OL in the league, was this not addressed, even to the point of bringing in one quality guy to show fans that they are trying?
Yes, these new and hopefully, improved guys, maybe better than last year's crop (they certainly can't be worse), it just boggles my mind that we again are predicted to be at the bottom of the barrel, and management either doesn't care or is sluffing off on their jobs.

I think they feel the did address it and they couldn't dump even more resources into a position group that they have already dumped multiple high 1st round picks, several mid to late round picks and almost 10 FAs in the last 2 years. 

They also changed coaches. At some point personnel resources have yo be used for the rest of the team.

I will add this:   I think the team is leaning heavily on their new line coach, Carmen Bricillo.  I would have to think Schoen and Daboll talked to Carmen after he reviewed the tape and asked him what he needed to produce an adequate offensive line.  I have to assume the players signed were what he said he needed.  I can't imagine the Giants hired the new O-line coach and left him hanging, telling him he needed to make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/20/24160180/did-the-giants-actually-improve-their-interior-offensive-line-this-offseason

This is an excellent introduction to our FA signings. Like most, I've been disappointed till I'm jaded about the o line rebuild, and I'll believe it when I see it in a few games. Still,  these look like smart pick ups. That's what Accorsi did to build us a dominant o line that gave us 2, nearly three superbowls. 

They seemed a lot better blocking for Tommy D

Perhaps they raise their game a bit for a decent QB......not a guy afraid to let the ball fly

Quote from: BluesCruz on May 20, 2024, 05:54:35 PMThey seemed a lot better blocking for Tommy D

Perhaps they raise their game a bit for a decent QB......not a guy afraid to let the ball fly

If you would have done even a simple Google search you would have seen that Devito to 3 times more sacks than Taylor and even more sacks than Jones.