Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 21, 2024, 05:02:36 PMOur O line was never good when OBJ was on the Giants. It has been varying degrees of bad since the 2012 season.

Good point. OBJ was lethal for 3+ years regardless of how poorly the OL played.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 21, 2024, 05:02:36 PMOur O line was never good when OBJ was on the Giants. It has been varying degrees of bad since the 2012 season.

Really?  In his first 3 years, which were his best 3 years, the Giants were 9th in fewest sacks, t4 in fewest sacks, and t3 in fewest sacks.  They've never come close to this proficiency in pass blocking in the post-Eli period, during which their league ranking in sacks allowed averaged 26th fewest.  Even in OBJ's 2 good years after his injury year the OL was middle of the road, 22nd and 19th - rankings that would mark a huge improvement if they were able to achieve that this year.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on May 21, 2024, 06:35:47 PMGood point. OBJ was lethal for 3+ years regardless of how poorly the OL played.

See my post above.  The OL was nowhere poor in his 3 glory years.  League rankings of a top 10 and 2 top 5s in fewest sacks allowed.

I guess memories are something else that needs to get fact checked, besides the eye test.

Quote from: Philosophers on May 21, 2024, 05:18:47 PMBut not 85 sacks bad and through the roof pressure rates.

If Nabers gets normal NFL time to run a route, he wins in most cases. 

My real concern is RG. Whoever man's thar spot is between JMS and Neal. Eluemunor has been a significantly better tackle than guard, but I guess he goes to RG, but if we need him for a failed Neal then there is no answer at RG that isn't Stinnie.

I do however think Neal has been injured both his seasons, and from the information coming out recently he was severely injured both his rookie and 2nd year while playing which limited his movement significantly. So hopefully being completely health and having a new oline coach do wonders for him.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 21, 2024, 07:09:37 PMSee my post above.  The OL was nowhere poor in his 3 glory years.  League rankings of a top 10 and 2 top 5s in fewest sacks allowed.

I guess memories are something else that needs to get fact checked, besides the eye test.

Your obsessive agenda with distorting this team's history aside, this is a thread about Nabers' ability to perform despite the QB quality. It's not a referendum on whether the OL will play as poorly or any better than last season.

They brought in a couple of vets and are hoping for good health from Thomas and growth from JMS. The assumption is the OL will be somewhat better. The question is how Nabers will perform assuming the current QBs play below par. Is he QB proof?

Step away from your canned answers and think about the thread's premise for once.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 21, 2024, 07:05:59 PMReally?  In his first 3 years, which were his best 3 years, the Giants were 9th in fewest sacks, t4 in fewest sacks, and t3 in fewest sacks.  They've never come close to this proficiency in pass blocking in the post-Eli period, during which their league ranking in sacks allowed averaged 26th fewest.  Even in OBJ's 2 good years after his injury year the OL was middle of the road, 22nd and 19th - rankings that would mark a huge improvement if they were able to achieve that this year.

Per PFF, the line was comfortably below average (ie bad) in each of Beckham's biggest three years. Phrase it how you like, but it was not good. The point was that an elite receiver can still produce at a high level behind a not good O line, depending on other circumstances. I never made a precise equation to the current line. You inferred that for some reason, even though I clearly said it has been varying degrees of bad since 2012, a statement I firmly stand by.


https://www.pff.com/news/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-this-season

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-this-season

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on May 21, 2024, 07:17:58 PMYour obsessive agenda with distorting this team's history aside, this is a thread about Nabers' ability to perform despite the QB quality. It's not a referendum on whether the OL will play as poorly or any better than last season.

They brought in a couple of vets and are hoping for good health from Thomas and growth from JMS. The assumption is the OL will be somewhat better. The question is how Nabers will perform assuming the current QBs play below par. Is he QB proof?

Step away from your canned answers and think about the thread's premise for once.

Saying the OL played poorly during OBJ's 3 glory years is distorting the team's history. 

One man's canned answers is another man's documented facts.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 21, 2024, 07:22:59 PMPer PFF, the line was comfortably below average (ie bad) in each of Beckham's biggest three years. Phrase it how you like, but it was not good. The point was that an elite receiver can still produce at a high level behind a not good O line, depending on other circumstances. I never made a precise equation to the current line. You inferred that for some reason, even though I clearly said it has been varying degrees of bad since 2012, a statement I firmly stand by.


https://www.pff.com/news/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-this-season

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-this-season

They literally drafted OBJ because the owner said the offense is broken.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 21, 2024, 07:23:59 PMSaying the OL played poorly during OBJ's 3 glory years is distorting the team's history. 

One man's canned answers is another man's documented facts.

No it's your odd obsession to drive home the same point about the OL you make in countless threads. You don't like the OL, we get it.

The offense was terrible before OBJ arrived and then they were top-10 in passing. Everyone watching understood it was OBJ who transformed the offense. You are rewriting history to suggest he was plugged into anything other than a dysfunctional situation.

Giants O line ranking in 2013 before OBJ was 28th

Eli Mannings numbers that year without an elite #1 WR were

57% 3818 Yards 18 TD 27 Int 69.4 RTG

Giants O line ranking in 2014 after OBJ was 20th

Eli Mannings numbers that year with an elite #1 WR were

63% 4400 Yards 30 TD 14 Int 92.1 RTG

So, they improved the O line and brought in an elite WR, and that had a major impact on Mannings numbers.

I would say Schoen has improved this year's O line a bit, and if Nabers is the real deal, then an elite WR was brought in.

Let's hope Nabers can have the same impact on DJ's career as OBJ had on Eli Mannings.

But only time will tell.

We will have to see how this plays out.

Lets see how he does against press coverage and if he cleans up his routes. I think WDR will benefit underneath with Nabors and Hyatt commanding Cover 2.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 21, 2024, 07:14:20 PMMy real concern is RG. Whoever man's thar spot is between JMS and Neal. Eluemunor has been a significantly better tackle than guard, but I guess he goes to RG, but if we need him for a failed Neal then there is no answer at RG that isn't Stinnie.

I do however think Neal has been injured both his seasons, and from the information coming out recently he was severely injured both his rookie and 2nd year while playing which limited his movement significantly. So hopefully being completely health and having a new oline coach do wonders for him.

Jess - I'll be very disappointed if their best RT is playing RG.  That simply can't happen.  It's got to be the best 5 at their positions and to establish it early so they get reps.

Quote from: Philosophers on May 22, 2024, 09:17:14 AMJess - I'll be very disappointed if their best RT is playing RG.  That simply can't happen.  It's got to be the best 5 at their positions and to establish it early so they get reps.

Yeah from what I'm hearing at otas they haven't defined a 5, but instead are working on 2 man blocking combos currently so hopefully we see something soon.

No receiver is really quarterback-proof. That was my point leading all the way up to the draft.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 22, 2024, 06:33:13 AMI think WDR will benefit underneath with Nabors and Hyatt commanding Cover 2.

Ed: THIS is what I hope for (at least in the initial four games).  After that, we'll see how good he really is. Bob