Big Blue Huddle

Wasn't it clear enough when McAdoo made the decision to bench Eli? If Mara exerted heavy influence or meddled, he wouldn't have fired three Head Coaches after two seasons.

I was an executive for most of my previous career and reported directly to an entrepreneurial owner. I had many conversations with him at his desk. He would give his opinion and sometimes it was contrary to my decisions. He never overrode me but I knew if I made too many bad decisions, it would be on me. I'm very familiar with the John Mara type of owner. The exception is that he is far more passive than my boss and Chairman of the Board was.

This is admittedly wild speculation (and mad respect if it's true):  What if Daboll and Schoen had a private conversation about Barkley, and they had decided long ago they wanted to move on from Barkley?  Schoen saying there would be pushback from John Mara.  So Schoen staged this fighting retreat, knowing that in the end, Barkley would be gone.

IF that clip of saying "he's the most popular player on the team" isn't meddling then I don't know what is. Short of saying sign Barkley or you're fired.

I am still astonished that people still defend this guy and. still deny what has been obvious for so long and now on TV for everybody to see. Not to mention if that is how he feels about a RB I can only imagine ....

The Giants are also making a big mistake in considering Barkley "just a running back." Check some of the box scores of the games; Bark was also a leading receiver; which I have no doubt everyone is "OK" with wasting a high draft pick on and a ton of money as well.

I still don't see how anyone can even compare this guy to other NY sports franchise owners and say he is not worse than say the Wilpons. Mara is clearly worse.

Quote from: Fletch on July 18, 2024, 08:53:09 AMIF that clip of saying "he's the most popular player on the team" isn't meddling then I don't know what is. Short of saying sign Barkley or you're fired.

An owner has to sell tickets, jerseys, luxury boxes, and sponsorships.   So you don't think owners would be concerned about issues like this?
 

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2024, 08:56:10 AMAn owner has to sell tickets, jerseys, luxury boxes, and sponsorships.   So you don't think owners would be concerned about issues like this?
 

Rich, I think Mara's point was that it would be a shame to lose a popular player who happens to be our best Offensive weapon. Meddling would be, "Do whatever is possible to keep this guy". "He puts fans in the seats, sells merchandise and air time, and he can't be replaced on the field." Very passive.   

Quote from: Ed Vette on July 18, 2024, 09:04:27 AMRich, I think Mara's point was that it would be a shame to lose a popular player who happens to be our best Offensive weapon. Meddling would be, "Do whatever is possible to keep this guy". "He puts fans in the seats, sells merchandise and air time, and he can't be replaced on the field." Very passive.   

I mentioned this in another thread.  An owner sees his business differently than a GM.  A GM is generally focused on winning games, while an owner is also focused on making money.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2024, 09:06:20 AMI mentioned this in another thread.  An owner sees his business differently than a GM.  A GM is generally focused on winning games, while an owner is also focused on making money.

I think winning games is a big part of keeping the fans happy.

It was one big Kumbayah Hula Party when Tommy D was winning 3 in a row.  Everyone was happy

Well maybe not Tyrod and Jones- not sure there

We have to find a way to score  gain YDs and play better than 500 football
My wish list for the season is beat Dallas, and Philly, and for goodness sakes figure a way to punch it into the end zone...We kick so many FGs in failed drives it drives me crazy.  I know its called football but lets take the foot off center stage. Puhleese

I think Bellinger is going to blossom this year and TE is the best way to find the end zone.  I hope they rotate RBs too.  Some of those new guys seem like playmakers.

Here is a nice piece on Singletary

https://www.giants.com/news/devin-singletary-2024-houston-texans-brian-daboll-buffalo-bills-nfl-com-kevin-patra#

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2024, 09:06:20 AMI mentioned this in another thread.  An owner sees his business differently than a GM.  A GM is generally focused on winning games, while an owner is also focused on making money.

You're giving Mara way too much credit and providing way too much cover. I wish Mara's concern was in making money. While i do agree that Mara cares more about the other things than winning games it is not because of money. It is because he likes a player like Daniel Jones for being absolutely perfect off the field and, he is willing to forgive a lot on the field because of it.

Quote from: Fletch on July 18, 2024, 09:51:46 AMYou're giving Mara way too much credit and providing way too much cover. I wish Mara's concern was in making money. While i do agree that Mara cares more about the other things than winning games it is not because of money. It is because he likes a player like Daniel Jones for being absolutely perfect off the field and, he is willing to forgive a lot on the field because of it.

These claims are long on speculation and short on facts.  In other words, you are stating what you believe to be the case, but it's something no on can really say to be the case.  Take your claim about Mara loving Daniel Jones.  From what we know it seems reasonable to suggest that Mara loved Saquan Barkley, but we have heard very little from Mara about what he thinks of Daniel Jones.  It's almost entirely you projecting your beliefs on to the owner.

Quote from: Ed Vette on July 18, 2024, 07:39:27 AMWasn't it clear enough when McAdoo made the decision to bench Eli? If Mara exerted heavy influence or meddled, he wouldn't have fired three Head Coaches after two seasons.

I was an executive for most of my previous career and reported directly to an entrepreneurial owner. I had many conversations with him at his desk. He would give his opinion and sometimes it was contrary to my decisions. He never overrode me but I knew if I made too many bad decisions, it would be on me. I'm very familiar with the John Mara type of owner. The exception is that he is far more passive than my boss and Chairman of the Board was.

Wait so all things that have happened you had to still pick on that thing?

Mara was right to fire Mcadoo. He isn't a real NFL coach. That holds true for Shurmur also. The fact that he benched Eli I am sure was not the only reason for Mcadoo getting fired. It was also a pretty darn good one, however. You had 3 QBs on the roster -- so you pick Geno Smith to start the game and say the reason was you wanted to evaluate other QB talent on the team?

Geno smith played 5 seasons in the NFL since then; 2 other teams; started as the Jets QB for years. It was not until age 32 that he got it together as NFL QB, and how much credit for that should Coach carol and the Seahawks get? Russ Wilson gets traded and gets cut for a 50-mil cap hit and played himself out of the HOF basically since leaving the Seahawks.

I also can't help but notice, coaches who can't coach just love running QBs like Shurmur and Mcadoo wanted Geno Smith and Daniel Jones to start over Eli Manning. And good coaches like Sean Payton will cut a Russ Wilson and take a 50-million-dollar cap hit.

One brings nothing to the table as an offensive mind as far at strategy and technique is concerned and can just hide behind a QB and tell him basically "go out there and play" while the other, can't stand when the plays and execution aren't going as designed.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2024, 10:09:00 AMThese claims are long on speculation and short on facts.  In other words, you are stating what you believe to be the case, but it's something no on can really say to be the case.  Take your claim about Mara loving Daniel Jones.  From what we know it seems reasonable to suggest that Mara loved Saquan Barkley, but we have heard very little from Mara about what he thinks of Daniel Jones.  It's almost entirely you projecting your beliefs on to the owner.

So how is it possible to prove it? You have a guy saying not just "he's the most popular player on the team" to "I would not be able to sleep at night if Barkley ended up on the Eagles".... His nephew is in these big important meetings even though he is only there because he is Mara's nephew by the looks of things.

And how can you prove it is not what I said and it is because of jersey sales?

Quote from: Fletch on July 18, 2024, 10:16:17 AMSo how is it possible to prove it? You have a guy saying not just "he's the most popular player on the team" to "I would not be able to sleep at night if Barkley ended up on the Eagles".... His nephew is in these big important meetings even though he is only there because he is Mara's nephew by the looks of things.

And how can you prove it is not what I said and it is because of jersey sales?

That is arguing, what I said.  It's fair to suggest Mara loved Barkley.   It's the claims that Mara loves Daniel Jones that is closer to a conspiracy theory than reasoned speculation/opinion

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2024, 10:24:20 AMThat is arguing, what I said.  It's fair to suggest Mara loved Barkley.   It's the claims that Mara loves Daniel Jones that is closer to a conspiracy theory than reasoned speculation/opinion

Really? conspiracy theory? It is not illegal or unusual for an owner to weigh heavily on a QB position, is it? And I can almost guarantee we'll see more from Mara on Jones in subsequent episodes.

Daniel Jones is not a good QB by any objective measure. People can point out Phil Simms all they want. Phil Simms won games as a rookie on a dreadful team that lost every game he didn't play. Got rookie team votes. Missed 2 seasons because of injury/losing his starting job as a consequence. He turned it around in a much shorter time frame in a different era of the league all considered.

That is not the same thing as what is happening with Jones scholarship now. I cannot think of one team in free agency era that has a QB on longer scholarship period as Daniel jones, can you?

Once you figure those 2 things -- what else is there? The Giants have been really unlucky in finding QB talent?

Quote from: Fletch on July 18, 2024, 10:32:33 AMIt is not illegal or unusual for an owner to weigh heavily on a QB position, is it?

That isn't the same as your claim that Mara loves Jones.   We simply have no evidence to support your claims that Mara loves Jones (to the point that he is interfering with team operations due to that love).  That is why your claims can be considered conspiracy theories.
 

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2024, 10:36:14 AMThat isn't the same as your claim that Mara loves Jones.   We simply have no evidence to support your claims that Mara loves Jones (to the point that he is interfering with team operations due to that love).  That is why your claims can be considered conspiracy theories.
 

You have no evidence? So why is Jones still on the team then? That is evidence right there! With the exception of one decent season the guy has sucked for 5 years!