Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: sxdxca38 on August 15, 2024, 08:55:07 PMHi,

I hope you're not referencing me in this statement, because if you are it isn't very nice, as I haven't done that to you, so I would ask for the same respect.

To say that those of us are not paying attention to details, or are deliberately choosing not to pay attention, when we have shown data that says otherwise is not being objective and honest.

Here are the most injured teams from 2014-2018

Seahawks 1569
Patriots 1550
Colts 1437
Ravens 1314
Jaguars 1255
Giants 1253
Saints 1211
Redskins 1187
49ers 1137
Chargers 1091
Texans 1065
Panthers 1048
Browns 1030
Lions 1022
Jets 1014
Bears 1000

As you can see, the Giants during those years were ranked 6th in injuries, five other teams were more injured than they were.

Secondly over sixteen teams had injuries ranked over 1,000, so yes more than a few teams deal with injuries every year, not just the Giants.

It's a violent sport and sometimes injuries happen.

Link down below for data

Injuries

I'm looking at a larger and considerably more recently ending sample size than 2014-2018. As Rich referenced:

https://x.com/ManGamesLostNFL/status/1484202241888247811/photo/1

Also there is a difference between the probable/questionable designation and actually being out for a game, which is ultimately what matters.

Look, we can pretend we're in the same boat as everyone else when it comes to injuries, and just chalk it all up to luck and the nature of the game. It seems our owner is doing that, so fans who do the same thing should have nothing to be upset about. My personal opinion is the Giants owe it to themselves and the fans to look more closely at the root of the problem here and try to improve the results. I have seen no convincing evidence to this point that they're trying to do that.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on August 15, 2024, 08:55:07 PMHi,

I hope you're not referencing me in this statement, because if you are it isn't very nice, as I haven't done that to you, so I would ask for the same respect.

To say that those of us are not paying attention to details, or are deliberately choosing not to pay attention, when we have shown data that says otherwise is not being objective and honest.

Here are the most injured teams from 2014-2018

Seahawks 1569
Patriots 1550
Colts 1437
Ravens 1314
Jaguars 1255
Giants 1253
Saints 1211
Redskins 1187
49ers 1137
Chargers 1091
Texans 1065
Panthers 1048
Browns 1030
Lions 1022
Jets 1014
Bears 1000

As you can see, the Giants during those years were ranked 6th in injuries, five other teams were more injured than they were.

Secondly over sixteen teams had injuries ranked over 1,000, so yes more than a few teams deal with injuries every year, not just the Giants.

It's a violent sport and sometimes injuries happen.

Link down below for data

Injuries

The methodology of that study seems flawed to me.  Mainly because it treats many different situations as equal in the count that simply aren't.  For example a player can be listed as 'questionable' and even if he plays he's counted as injured.  Plus there is quite a bit of latitude in whether a team lists a player as questionable or not, introducing a note of subjectivity.

It is also unclear how players going on Injured Reserve figure into the injury counts.

The man games lost approach seems like much better design in that it seems to be far more objective and doesn't have the ambiguities of just counting injuries.

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 15, 2024, 08:48:06 AMThere are many ways to measure injuries, and this one isn't a particularly good one.  It counts players who play on Sunday as injured if they were listed as probable or questionable.   Not a particularly sound way of measuring, in my opinion.

In terms of quality of measurement, I think the now defunct mandays lost was the best



https://x.com/ManGamesLostNFL/status/1617604238770569216

The metric above, "Lost Man-Games Due To Injury," is what we want to pay attention to.

Rich @MightyGiants is right to call this out, and I will back this based on 35 years working in the Aerospace and Defense Industry with practical Manufacturing Shop Floor understanding of OSHA procedures and guidelines. This metric is as close to a "best in class" replica of the recognized industry standard "Lost Man-Days Due To Injury" which is a recordable safety metric a Manufacturing company must track, in addition to others, and must write up the details of the situation, root cause and develop a corrective and preventive action to ensure the incident does not reoccur.

In general, if you are on the top 10 in this category, you should be investigating why and executing due diligence in making improvements to your policies, procedures and process, as well as your own decision making, in order to improve in this category.

In the end, it not only costs the Giants in terms of their record, but also cost of insurance and medical bills.

Peace!

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 15, 2024, 09:35:29 PMI'm looking at a larger and considerably more recently ending sample size than 2014-2018. As Rich referenced:

https://x.com/ManGamesLostNFL/status/1484202241888247811/photo/1

Also there is a difference between the probable/questionable designation and actually being out for a game, which is ultimately what matters.

Look, we can pretend we're in the same boat as everyone else when it comes to injuries, and just chalk it all up to luck and the nature of the game. It seems our owner is doing that, so fans who do the same thing should have nothing to be upset about. My personal opinion is the Giants owe it to themselves and the fans to look more closely at the root of the problem here and try to improve the results. I have seen no convincing evidence to this point that they're trying to do that.

Fair enough, and good point, as I can see where you are coming from.

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 15, 2024, 08:48:06 AMThere are many ways to measure injuries, and this one isn't a particularly good one.  It counts players who play on Sunday as injured if they were listed as probable or questionable.   Not a particularly sound way of measuring, in my opinion.

In terms of quality of measurement, I think the now defunct mandays lost was the best



https://x.com/ManGamesLostNFL/status/1617604238770569216

Hi Mighty,

In the metric you have posted I count at least nine to ten teams that lost 2,750 games due to injury during those years.

Which means the Giants are not the only team being isolated from this event.

Out of those nine to ten teams, seven to eight of them made the Superbowl at least once during those years, including the Giants.

New England and New Orleans continued to win a lot of games during those years because the main factor, the elite QB was not injured for a long period of time during that time as well.

which shows the injury status needs to be qualified by what positions are being hit the hardest, and not just a blanket statement.

If you have an elite QB he can overcome some of the bad misfortune by injuries, as Brees and Brady were able to.

However as was shown last year by the Jets Aaron Rodgers, this year JJ Mccarthy, Tom Brady in 2008, and Deshaun Watson a few years ago, when you lose your franchise QB due to injury your team has no chance to overcome it.

And my point is, is that the Giants are not the only team going through this, that is all

Quote from: sxdxca38 on August 17, 2024, 09:45:38 AMFair enough, and good point, as I can see where you are coming from.

Thank you, and I will respond by saying that your willingness to investigate evidence and consider evidence-backed alternative viewpoints (on any subject), rather than just join in on echo chamber group think chorus, is a very constructive instinct for this board in my opinion.

We all want the same thing here. Let's hope this season is a healthier one!

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 17, 2024, 10:00:11 AMThank you, and I will respond by saying that your willingness to investigate evidence and consider evidence-backed alternative viewpoints (on any subject), rather than just join in on echo chamber group think chorus, is a very constructive instinct for this board in my opinion.

We all want the same thing here. Let's hope this season is a healthier one!

Thank you, and I agree, take care Dave