Big Blue Huddle

Here's how Andrew Whitworth remembers it. Whitworth gave the Rams 5 good years at left tackle after the Giants turned him down.

"I actually had reached out and wanted to be a Giant just because I knew Eli Manning really well," Whitworth told The Post. "But they kinda said no because they thought they were gonna continue with Ereck Flowers at left tackle, and that obviously didn't end up working the next year. Once we got into it and realized that wasn't an option, the Jets showed some interest but it wasn't really something that I was that interested in doing."

Instead, Whitworth signed a three-year, $36 million deal with the Rams. Giants GM Jerry Reese was fired and replaced by Dave Gettleman in 2017. Gettleman signed LT Nate Solder to a four-year, $62 million contract to replace Flowers and drafted Andrew Thomas with the fourth pick of the 2020 NFL Draft to replace Solder.

https://nypost.com/2022/02/07/rams-lineman-andrew-whitworth-wanted-to-sign-with-giants-in-2017/

Quote from: Ed Vette on August 25, 2024, 10:04:07 AMReese and Gettleman didn't Draft any better. Accorsi set the team up for seven years until they got old.

What you say about Reese and Gettleman is well-proven. It also is true that Accorsi set the team up with Super Bowl-winning Olines during that time frame. Moreover, it was without the benefit of 1st Round picks- unless we are going further back to the infamous Luke Petitgout- as Diehl was a 5th Rounder in '03, Snee was a 2nd Rounder in '04. The rest: Seubert, O'Hara, and McKenzie were FAs who, with their also remarkable ability to stay healthy, completed Accorsi's run of wise and lucky. Indeed, it even remained so after Booth and Bass succeeded Seubert and O'Hara.

Of course, it wasn't long and with little exception before the Giants Oline came crashing back down to Earth, or should I say Dirth?

Cheers!

When Gettleman signed Nate Solder, he was actually the Giants plan B option after Andrew Norwell chose to sign with Tom Coughlin and the Jags.

"The Giants put a lot of eggs in the Andrew Norwell basket, but the Panthers' All-Pro guard reportedly will sign a five-year, $66.5 million contract with the Jaguars when the new league year opens on Wednesday at 4 p.m.

The Giants had to be prepared for the possibility that they wouldn't be able to land Norwell, who was the top offensive lineman on the market. So, what's Plan B?"

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/272021/2018/03/13/whats-plan-b-for-the-giants-after-reportedly-missing-on-andrew-norwell?source=user-shared-article

Quote from: Ed Vette on August 25, 2024, 10:04:07 AMReese and Gettleman didn't Draft any better. Accorsi set the team up for seven years until they got old.

I agree. This is too big to hang on one guy in the front office or scouting. There are a lot of folks who are already out of jobs because they were not able to fix the O-line problems using the draft, going back to 2015 and the Erik Flowers/Bobby Hart debacle. I liked that this year they went out and used free agency to bring in guys they, and the new O-line coach, knew could play. That's the more expensive route, but it should work better.   

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 25, 2024, 11:45:33 AMIt was still a terrible contract and terrible decision. Solder was the literal definition of a JAG, and they handed him marquee money. No matter what the circumstances are, there is never any justification for doing that. Gettleman really hurt the team with that move.

The Patriots wanted to keep Solder. The Giants had no choice but to offer a contract that priced him out of the Pats range.  I disagree that DG hurt the team with that move. There was no one left to play OLT so were the Giants supposed to go into the season without a left tackle?

As mediocre as Solder was, he was certainly better than Flowers and was an upgrade over him.


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Schoen has not had a transcendant draft in which say 3-4 players become starters and valuable contributors.  Other GMs have which have vaulted their teams up.  Eagles, 49ers, and Rams are examples.

Quote from: todge on August 25, 2024, 08:00:36 PMThe Patriots wanted to keep Solder. The Giants had no choice but to offer a contract that priced him out of the Pats range.  I disagree that DG hurt the team with that move. There was no one left to play OLT so were the Giants supposed to go into the season without a left tackle?

As mediocre as Solder was, he was certainly better than Flowers and was an upgrade over him.


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He may have been an upgrade to Flowers, but that's not saying much because Flowers was horrible. What Solder was not was anything remotely close to being the best tackle in the league. He might have been the best tackle left available when they signed him, but they made him the highest paid tackle in the league. He was not anything close to that with the Pats, and he certainly wasn't with the Giants either.

When you vastly overpay for a middling/mediocre talent, you hurt your team because you deprive yourself of the ability to use that wasted, overspent cap space on other talent. That is exactly what Gettleman did when he paid Solder the highest paid tackle in the league. That hurt the team. If you see it differently then we can agree to disagree, but I would humbly suggest you'll have a hard time finding many Giants fans who agree with you that the Nate Solder contract wasn't a bad contract.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on August 25, 2024, 12:13:04 PMWhen Gettleman signed Nate Solder, he was actually the Giants plan B option after Andrew Norwell chose to sign with Tom Coughlin and the Jags.

"The Giants put a lot of eggs in the Andrew Norwell basket, but the Panthers' All-Pro guard reportedly will sign a five-year, $66.5 million contract with the Jaguars when the new league year opens on Wednesday at 4 p.m.

The Giants had to be prepared for the possibility that they wouldn't be able to land Norwell, who was the top offensive lineman on the market. So, what's Plan B?"

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/272021/2018/03/13/whats-plan-b-for-the-giants-after-reportedly-missing-on-andrew-norwell?source=user-shared-article

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on August 25, 2024, 12:13:04 PMWhen Gettleman signed Nate Solder, he was actually the Giants plan B option after Andrew Norwell chose to sign with Tom Coughlin and the Jags.

"The Giants put a lot of eggs in the Andrew Norwell basket, but the Panthers' All-Pro guard reportedly will sign a five-year, $66.5 million contract with the Jaguars when the new league year opens on Wednesday at 4 p.m.

The Giants had to be prepared for the possibility that they wouldn't be able to land Norwell, who was the top offensive lineman on the market. So, what's Plan B?"

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/272021/2018/03/13/whats-plan-b-for-the-giants-after-reportedly-missing-on-andrew-norwell?source=user-shared-article

I'm glad you brought this piece of history up.  People seem to have forgotten that Solder was not the original plan.  What I never understood was what their plan for LT if they HAD signed Norwell.  He was an OG and would have been an upgrade.  But, they still would have had Flowers with little or no money to spend for a LT

Quote from: todge on August 25, 2024, 08:00:36 PMThe Patriots wanted to keep Solder. The Giants had no choice but to offer a contract that priced him out of the Pats range.  I disagree that DG hurt the team with that move. There was no one left to play OLT so were the Giants supposed to go into the season without a left tackle?

As mediocre as Solder was, he was certainly better than Flowers and was an upgrade over him.


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But again, Gettleman and the coaches painted themselves into that corner by not moving past Flowers a year or two sooner, and drafting him in the first place.

Quote from: nb587 on August 25, 2024, 09:22:29 PMI'm glad you brought this piece of history up.  People seem to have forgotten that Solder was not the original plan.  What I never understood was what their plan for LT if they HAD signed Norwell.  He was an OG and would have been an upgrade.  But, they still would have had Flowers with little or no money to spend for a LT

Gettlemwn never had a plan. Of any kind. From the minute he took the job. And it showed in all the randomness and stupidity of most of his moves.

Schoen at least has a plan and it makes sense. You can see the logic there. Neal is a bad pick. No question. But it's a bad pick any GM would have made in that circumstance. Nobody could have predicted Neal would be THIS bad if they watched any of his college film. He's somehow gotten worse as a pro which could be a product of truly lousy coaching. 

When Neal opted out of doing the agility drills at INDY a smart front office would have crossed him off their list.

This an example of where his agent was smarter than our entire front office.

I blame Shoen,

There wouldn't have been a GM, in need of OL talent, that would not have taken Neal as high as possible.

Nobody would have crossed him off their board because of the combine.

I think you need a few years to judge a draft. Schoen now has his 3rd draft so I think this is a telling year for him. I like a lot of players he has picked, and this past draft looks really good so far. One other related thing, I also like the FA's Schoen has picked up, especially this year. The OL vets, UDFA like Chatman and Turbo, etc.

How is it that on a perennially bad team and drafting near the top of the draft board, the Giants are lucky to get only 2 starters out of it yet other teams like the Chiefs drafting at the back because they are so good find 2 starters in the same draft?  With so much more talent, it should be harder to break into the starting lineup of a team like the Chiefs.

Quote from: Philosophers on August 26, 2024, 09:34:20 AMHow is it that on a perennially bad team and drafting near the top of the draft board, the Giants are lucky to get only 2 starters out of it yet other teams like the Chiefs drafting at the back because they are so good find 2 starters in the same draft?  With so much more talent, it should be harder to break into the starting lineup of a team like the Chiefs.

Something is broken within this organization. All the sugar coating and optimistic spin in the world doesn't change the fact that the Giants are a bottom-5 team in terms of wins and losses for more than a decade.

There's an old saying that you can't fix a problem until you acknowledge you have one. I'm not sure Mara and company are willing to take responsibility beyond scapegoating one or two individuals each season.