Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 26, 2024, 05:42:40 PMIn the latest "Talkin' Giants" podcast, Bobby Skinner makes the claim that Saturday's game was the official final "nail in the coffin" for Evan Neal as an offensive tackle for the New York Giants, at least far as he sees it and as far as there being any hope that he can even be average. He mentioned the same thing in his taped conversation with Rich that you can watch in the thread Rich provided. The follow-up point that he made was that Neal needs to start working at guard ASAP and that the project of him playing tackle for this team, even in a swing role, should be abandoned.

Thoughts on this?

I agree. When evaluating offensive tackles, you have to put more weight on their worst plays. How much damage will the egregiously bad plays cause when an edge rusher comes in unimpeded. From what I've seen, I'm afraid Neal will get the QB injured while trying to learn how to play ORT. There's too much downside without any evidence on the tape that he has the tools to blossom into the player we thought we were getting.

Quote from: Philosophers on August 26, 2024, 06:15:46 PMIt's what all our eyes saw.  I saw a man reacting late then moving at half the speed necessary and when strength was needed, he got pushed back.

I said play him at guard but honestly, I dont even think he has any heart.

Yup.

Barring a miraculous turnaround, which seems all but impossible, he joins Ron Dayne, Cedric Jones, DeAndre Baker, Eli Apple, Kadarius Toney, and Ereck Flowers as the Giants' biggest first round busts ever.

I can't argue that Neal may end up at guard (as his last hope).  That said, I am mindful that Neal really hasn't had much time to work with the new O-line coach due to his ankle injury.  It's possible that, with more coaching, he could still improve, but I acknowledge that is a bit of a long shot at this point.

It's a bit silly to me that they haven't given him any work at guard at all this preseason. What exactly is the downside? Could it make his RT play worse? That seems pretty hard to do. Would he suck as a guard to? Maybe. Probably. But we don't know for sure until we see it. We've seen Neal the RT and it ain't pretty. Plus if he tries and sucks at guard you cut him then. But at least it's not a repeat of the flowers situation where another team simply tries him at guard and everybody realizes he did should have been there all along

What's a range in height that teams desire for an offensive tackle?

Just curious as is seems our two TALL tackles we've drafted have been ass at the position. Neal actually looks long legged for his tall height as well. It always seems as if he's roller skating on an ice patch, or perhaps a newborn fawn after being birthed. If you could chop 3 inches off his legs.....just saying.

Anyhow, I am curious as to the physical height being an issue and if there is a range in which the %'s of better than avg tackles are in.

In my opinion, it looks like he is weak in his legs/ass/bend, or perhaps he is so unconfident due to his failures thus far in the NFL, that he is having paralysis by analysis. He does always seem to be caught in a position (during pass protection on an island) where he always get pushed back. I'm unsure what the issue is for this, but it's a gaping hole that I would exploit if I were a defense playing big blue.

He seems more engaged, mission oriented, and bully like when a run is called where he can just bust em, which is better than he appears when he's on an island for sure.

I doubt he will ever live up to his #7 pick, but I'm hoping we can get enough value out of him somewhere on the line this year where we will at least be arguing on this board over whether or not we should re-sign him or not.

Are there any potential blow out games early we can throw him in a meaningless game to see if the switch flips at guard for him......talking with Cutlets out there in a blowout game?!?!

Top

I'm going to predict that when we get rid of him some team will pick him up, play him at his natural LT position, and he will become a solid starter.

https://x.com/GM_ReShuffle/status/1828402735504339267

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 26, 2024, 06:19:54 PMYup.

Barring a miraculous turnaround, which seems all but impossible, he joins Ron Dayne, Cedric Jones, DeAndre Baker, Eli Apple, Kadarius Toney, and Ereck Flowers as the Giants' biggest first round busts ever.

Rocky Thompson? Thomas Lewis? Derek Brown? 

I agree with Skinner, except IMO they should (and must) hold him until the absolute "last minute..." just in case.

Right now, IMO, he has one foot out-the-door and the other on a banana peel.

It could turn out to be our biggest "wasted pick" of the decade (century?), a list which includes a ton of LOSERS, not only because (as several other members have pointed out and discussed in other threads) there were sensational players passed over to select Neal, but also because he was selected so high in the first round.

Bob

I will tell you something even more troubling.  If it is true the Giants preferred Iggy Ekwonu instead of Neal and would have drafted him, he has also been a subpar/quasi-bust OL.

What does that say about the Giants ability to evaluate OL prospects?

Quote from: Philosophers on August 27, 2024, 09:44:07 AMI will tell you something even more troubling.  If it is true the Giants preferred Iggy Ekwonu instead of Neal and would have drafted him, he has also been a subpar/quasi-bust OL.

What does that say about the Giants ability to evaluate OL prospects?

Phil: For me, at least, selecting non-busting high-1st-round T's & C's is harder than picking high-1st QB's. Bob

I'm watching college football right now and I'm having a real difficult time reconciling how good this kid played as part of a top 5 or better team in the country during his time there.

The Giants invested a #7 overall and it looks like we're getting no return.

Along the lines of moving him inside along the OL...in all seriousness I ask: How impossible would it be to play him along the DL?

He's got the length and the strength, he doesn't have to really worry about his balance while moving backward as he'll be moving forward almost exclusively.

I realize this is a reach but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the idea of shifting positions on high picks when you're going to get basically nothing in return.

College football seams to do it every year...and lately we seem to be following their lead on everything else so why not?


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Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 26, 2024, 06:19:54 PMYup.

Barring a miraculous turnaround, which seems all but impossible, he joins Ron Dayne, Cedric Jones, DeAndre Baker, Eli Apple, Kadarius Toney, and Ereck Flowers as the Giants' biggest first round busts ever.

IMO he is a BUST.

For those hoping he be tried at guard, Daboll says we are set at guard, he's a backup tackle for now. And they might try him as swing tackle as he seems to be a little better on the left side

Article this morning in the NY Post: https://nypost.com/2024/08/29/sports/giants-evan-neal-has-one-path-to-playing-we-have-enough-guards/

He's third on the depth Chart. He has to supplant Ezeudu which isn't insurmountable. What are the odds that either Thomas or Elumenor get through the season unscathed? You haven't seen the last of Evan Neal.

He has slow feet and he's lumbering but a lot of his xxxx is mental. They need to see how he works at LT. They are so afraid of moving Andrew Thomas to the right side who would probably be a perennial pro bowl player there. I get it, don't fix what ain't broke.

Rich makes a valid point that he's coming off injury and had no practice time. He's too high of a commodity to completely give up on him without exhausting every avenue, so unless Phillips comes back locked and loaded, they don't have any depth at Tackle. Dabs is right and he don't buy the groceries.