Big Blue Huddle

Let me answer before Toomer sees yet another DJ thread and loses his fucking mind.

I mentioned two things that perhaps you didn't see. One is they changed his stance in the shotgun and UC. He used to lead with his right foot forward, so when he took the snap, he could drop his right foot back in his step drop and he would be set for either a bounce back or a three set drop and have his base set. Now he has both feet parallel to the LOS and believe it or not, it complicates the setup of his feet.

Next thing is he moved into the interior pass rush when he had a clean pocket. It brought him closer to the defender to get his arm hit and it obscures the field of vision, so he has to alter the angle of his throw. It also shows where he intends to go with the ball if he slides left from a clean pocket. This is something that a rookie in Drake Maye is doing and with his experience he should know better.

I'm not a fan of having a QB Coach who was never a QB in at least the college level. Tierney has failed Daniel Jones for two years now and although he's a good man, they need a QB Guru to snap Jones out of this funk. ASAP

Yes, I'm just a fan, but I've spent extensive time educating myself on the QB position over the last 22 years.

I have only one question.

WHY CAN'T THIS GO IN ANY OF THE DOZENS OF EXISTING JONES THREADS???

Quote from: Giant Jim on September 11, 2024, 03:57:53 PMBack ups don't throw balls at receiver's feet or interceptions like the pick 6 he's thrown. He was never this bad.

The pick six was a classic example of why a supporting cast is important. The play call was a quick pass in the flat. That type of play is dependent on the right tackle to block the edge rusher. Eleumenor totally missed his assignment leaving Van Ginkel with an easy interception. Of course Jones gets the blame .

As to errant passes - Jones just had ACL surgery in November. He is clearly rusty. We hope that he eventually shakes off that rust and returns to form. But that may not happen- the entire stadium unmercifully booing him along with Jones perhaps being gun shy and easily rattled may result in irreversible damage.

It's a shame - Jones is a good kid; first one in the locker room and the last one to leave. He has never once complained about being handed different coaches with different offensive philosophies as well as the worst offensive lines in the league. Not to mention no All Pros at WR with other QBs having at least one if not two. 

Jones' stats at this point last year were on par with Dexter Lawrence and yes, even Eli. If he's benched this year, he deserves a better team with a better situation than what he has here.


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Quote from: madbadger on September 11, 2024, 03:33:37 PMHe's always been inaccurate. Perhaps a little more this past Sunday than on average but he's had games where his accuracy was worse before all the injuries. It is who he is. It could get better but I don't think we'll ever get to the point where it's good enough when accounting for all the issues surrounding the game.

I can't recall a quarterback improving radically after his fifth year in the league. At best he's a backup in the league IMHO.

Jones' career completion percentage is 64% which is comparable to the other starters in this league.


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Quote from: Ed Vette on September 11, 2024, 04:53:57 PMLet me answer before Toomer sees yet another DJ thread and loses his fucking mind.

I mentioned two things that perhaps you didn't see. One is they changed his stance in the shotgun and UC. He used to lead with his right foot forward, so when he took the snap, he could drop his right foot back in his step drop and he would be set for either a bounce back or a three set drop and have his base set. Now he has both feet parallel to the LOS and believe it or not, it complicates the setup of his feet.

Next thing is he moved into the interior pass rush when he had a clean pocket. It brought him closer to the defender to get his arm hit and it obscures the field of vision, so he has to alter the angle of his throw. It also shows where he intends to go with the ball if he slides left from a clean pocket. This is something that a rookie in Drake Maye is doing and with his experience he should know better.

I'm not a fan of having a QB Coach who was never a QB in at least the college level. Tierney has failed Daniel Jones for two years now and although he's a good man, they need a QB Guru to snap Jones out of this funk. ASAP

Yes, I'm just a fan, but I've spent extensive time educating myself on the QB position over the last 22 years.

I'm with Ed. I believe his footwork is definitely different than years past. It actually looks kinda forced

Quote from: files58 on September 11, 2024, 11:21:25 AMThere is one answer. He is not a good QB.

Yep.  None of this surprises me.  At all.  I don't understand why people still actually think he can be good.  He never was.  We will have a worse draft pick with Jones and that's the only silver lining. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 11, 2024, 03:10:32 PMFor those not answering the questions but simply saying that DJ stinks, I have a question for you-  What does that say about Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen, who have had DJ as their starter for the past 3 seasons?

There should no longer be discussion about Jones' being competent, but this is a good point.

My honest opinion is neither one wanted him, but Mara did.  We could have won games with Tyrod, Daboll's offense looks good with him.  You can't win with Jones - he isn't a good passer, has little anticpation and defenses know it.  They don't need to know the playbook, they just need to know him.

I really wouldn't evaluate those 2 until they get their own QB.

Quote from: todge on September 11, 2024, 05:53:59 PMJones' career completion percentage is 64% which is comparable to the other starters in this league.


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It's not comparable to other starters in the league when you factor his 6.2 YP/A; his numbers are comparable to David Carr's 68% and 6.4 YP/A. 

BL: It's not hard to obtain a mid-level accuracy rate when you average yard per pass is 6 yards.  I'd be ok with a lower accuracy rate and more Int, if it meant more TDs and big plays.  Playing conservative football is not getting us anywhere. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 11, 2024, 03:10:32 PMFor those not answering the questions but simply saying that DJ stinks, I have a question for you-  What does that say about Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen, who have had DJ as their starter for the past 3 seasons?

MG, The answer to the question I'd like but won't get is how much influence mara had on giving jones that contract. At the time I felt Schoen was ready to let him walk until he was signed. Although Schoen has not done a good job with his draft picks looking like a miss on 5 and a huge miss on 7. Banks, another first round pick also is not setting the league on fire and Schmitz is not looking good either. Dabolls play calling Sunday was mystifying. If you have that little confidence in jones which might be the case put one of the other not so good qb's in then.sundays game from an offensive standpoint was unwatchable. I though the line wasn't terrible but at this point Danny check down may be suffering from David Carr battered qb syndrome. Unless the team completely implodes to the tune of 2 or 3 wins I think both Schoen and dabbol are safe and will draft their qb in the next draft. once that's done they will get 2 to 3 years to seee how the new qb and the team progresses.This will be a long season. I thought they'd win 6 including last weeks game and this week in Washington. If they lose to Washington with the next 6 games upcoming all bets are off!           

There remains a lot of predisposed over-reaction. Don't be surprised if he throws for 250 yards and two TDs and rushes for 40 and another TD this week. He'll get no credit for that because its Washington, fans have already made up their minds what he is, and the nay-sayers will all say Dallas will just humble him again in a few days. He needs to be better as does the O-Line and RBs (a whopping 45 yards rushing combined).

17 games people. 17 games. I don't expect many Giants fans will root for him at this point. I just never understand why so many root against him.

Quote from: bamagiantfan on September 11, 2024, 09:12:56 PMThere remains a lot of predisposed over-reaction. Don't be surprised if he throws for 250 yards and two TDs and rushes for 40 and another TD this week. He'll get no credit for that because its Washington, fans have already made up their minds what he is, and the nay-sayers will all say Dallas will just humble him again in a few days. He needs to be better as does the O-Line and RBs (a whopping 45 yards rushing combined).

17 games people. 17 games. I don't expect many Giants fans will root for him at this point. I just never understand why so many root against him.

He hasn't thrown a TD pass in seven of his last eight starts.  Actually, more pick sizes than TD passes.  It's not about rooting against him.  It about accepting reality.

Quote from: Gmo11 on September 11, 2024, 11:38:48 AMOccam's Razor may apply here.

Not to be cheeky, although it may come off that way, but maybe it's time that the Mara family put quarterbacks at Duke University on the universal "DO NOT DRAFT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE" Blacklist.

I took a look back at all players drafted from Duke and, in particular, quarterbacks. Daniel Jones was the second highest drafted NFL pick ever taken for a Duke player (#6) (NOTE: Mike Junkin was the 5th overall selection taken by the Browns in 1987). Ironically, Dave Brown didn't even qualify for the list since he was a 1992 Supplemental Pick. But, if you looked at the entire list of Duke QBs who played in the NFL, you have to reach back to 1957 when the Iggles, of all teams, drafted Sonny Jurgensen in the fourth round with the 43rd pick. He  clearly, turned out to be the best QB ever drafted out of Duke.

Jones and Brown weren't the only Duke QBs who played in New York. Al Woodall, who played for the Jets in the early 1970s, was also a Duke graduate, and filled in for Broadway Joe.

So, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. If you ever fool me again ...

DON'T GO THERE!!!

Peace!

Quote from: bamagiantfan on September 11, 2024, 09:12:56 PMThere remains a lot of predisposed over-reaction. Don't be surprised if he throws for 250 yards and two TDs and rushes for 40 and another TD this week. He'll get no credit for that because its Washington, fans have already made up their minds what he is, and the nay-sayers will all say Dallas will just humble him again in a few days. He needs to be better as does the O-Line and RBs (a whopping 45 yards rushing combined).

17 games people. 17 games. I don't expect many Giants fans will root for him at this point. I just never understand why so many root against him.

He probably will do just that, if not more. Context matters though, and truth be told, we've seen this episode of the show many times.

As far as folks rooting against him, I can say that I haven't seen that. Wanting to move on from him after five years of actually seeing he isn't the answer isn't the same as rooting against him.

And of course, the offensive line and lack of quality receivers will be brought up, as it is a legitimate issue in his performance. The thing is though, the organization has been trying to upgrade those positions yet there has been no upgrade to the QB position. Getting better play from the line and receivers doesn't automatically upgrade the QB position. I think that's what is frustrating to many of us. He is what he is. There may be a slight improvement here and there from him. But that's not what this team wants or needs.

Quote from: T200 on September 12, 2024, 08:31:58 AMHe probably will do just that, if not more. Context matters though, and truth be told, we've seen this episode of the show many times.

As far as folks rooting against him, I can say that I haven't seen that. Wanting to move on from him after five years of actually seeing he isn't the answer isn't the same as rooting against him.

And of course, the offensive line and lack of quality receivers will be brought up, as it is a legitimate issue in his performance. The thing is though, the organization has been trying to upgrade those positions yet there has been no upgrade to the QB position. Getting better play from the line and receivers doesn't automatically upgrade the QB position. I think that's what is frustrating to many of us. He is what he is. There may be a slight improvement here and there from him. But that's not what this team wants or needs.

Yes, there comes a time to hit the refresh button and a head coach wants to have a go with HIS QB.

In some respects, Kerry Collins was in this situation when Eli was drafted. The primary difference was that Coach Coughlin made it clear to Collins that he was no longer the future for the Giants.

In Daboll's case, the cards haven't played out for that scenario. However, when they do, it is probably safe to say that he will get his QB and Jones will move on.

It doesn't make sense to hate Jones because the decision to draft him, as high a pick he was selected at, and considering the school he played at, were both fundamental mistakes by the scouting department and the GM of the day. Then, with the team in perpetual chaos ever since, very few QBs could succeed in those conditions with the O-Lines they had.

I can imagine Jones breathing a perverse sigh of relief when his days are done with the Giants.

Peace!

Quote from: Ed Vette on September 11, 2024, 04:53:57 PMLet me answer before Toomer sees yet another DJ thread and loses his fucking mind.

I mentioned two things that perhaps you didn't see. One is they changed his stance in the shotgun and UC. He used to lead with his right foot forward, so when he took the snap, he could drop his right foot back in his step drop and he would be set for either a bounce back or a three set drop and have his base set. Now he has both feet parallel to the LOS and believe it or not, it complicates the setup of his feet.

Next thing is he moved into the interior pass rush when he had a clean pocket. It brought him closer to the defender to get his arm hit and it obscures the field of vision, so he has to alter the angle of his throw. It also shows where he intends to go with the ball if he slides left from a clean pocket. This is something that a rookie in Drake Maye is doing and with his experience he should know better.

I'm not a fan of having a QB Coach who was never a QB in at least the college level. Tierney has failed Daniel Jones for two years now and although he's a good man, they need a QB Guru to snap Jones out of this funk. ASAP

Yes, I'm just a fan, but I've spent extensive time educating myself on the QB position over the last 22 years.

Thank you, Ed.  This is exactly the sort of educated and informed answer I was looking for. 

I wonder why, after so many years in the NFL, he would change his footwork so drastically.  I thought I had heard something in one interview (but couldn't confirm it when I searched the web) that DJ had changed his footwork and something about being more parallel to the LOS.  I tend to agree with Tierney.  Much like Bobby Johnson, other than working with Daboll on the Bills, what were Teirney's qualifications as a QB coach?