Big Blue Huddle

We moan, bitch, throw up(literally) our hands in disgust to what end? Success can be measured in a number of ways. In 2014 the value of the Giants was about $2.1 Billion, today 10 years later it's $7.3 Billion. A more than threefold increase during a time when the owners/mgmt. have put out a vastly inferior product. Nice gig if you are an investor, not so nice for us fans whose currency is measured in wins and losses. Must be quite a party in the exec offices sometime after the Super Bowl when the financials are passed out, and the suits are smoking Cubans going harumph, harumph, harumph(Mara "I didn't get a harumph out of you"). $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ mitigates the losses on the field for the owners, not for us. Mara can throw all the chairs he wants, it's a show. While it won't change anything I would like Mara to hear in a meeting/interview type of session to hear what I wrote.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on September 11, 2024, 04:38:34 AMThey have made a lot of big mistakes. But I believe the problems are structural.

1. John Mara seems like a nice guy but he is an unbelievably incompetent "Team President". He's there because he's a co-owner. Anyone else would have been fired from that job 8-9 years ago.

2. Chris Mara also can't be fired from his job despite being demonstrably incompetent over the last 13 years because, like John Mara, he is a co-owner.

3. This means that two incompetent people are ultimate decision-makers on the team, and no one can get rid of them, or hold them to account. The Giants will never be good as long as these two guys are running the show. It was the same when Wellington Mara their very nice-guy dad was in charge. In 1979, there was a rebel in the family (Tim Mara Jr.) who could shake things up and force the NFL to intervene. No such person exists today. The co-owners, the Tisch family, don't know anything about football.

4. Look closely at the Joe Judge hire. Who in their right minds would hire that guy as a head coach. Easily the worst NFL head coach of any team in the last 15 years. He had no resume. All he had was the ability to act like a coach on TV, and that, plus a phone call with Bill Belichik (who only produced NFL head coaching failures in the NFL and failed himself as soon as he didn't have Tom Brady) was enough to hire him. That was after they had hired Ben McAdoo and Pat Shurmur, who weren't much better. A braintrust that makes these hires doesn't know what it's doing, is essentially hopeless.

5. Gettleman. Awful. But Schoen has been here three years now and the Giants are as bad as they've ever been. That's on the current leadership, starting with John and Chris Mara.

6. At the end of this season they will fire Schoen and Daboll. But John and Chris Mara will still be in charge of hiring the new guys and the result won't be much better. If instead of calling Belichik like they do every two years to get his instructions on who to hire as HC (which is what they did with both Judge and Daboll), they just hire Belichik himself to run the team, it will be an unmitigated disaster. This team could be like the Lions were for four decades. Consistently among the worst teams in the NFL, without any chance of success. 

7. They could have gone out and tried to get Jim Harbaugh, he wanted to come. We would be seeing a completely different team (I guarantee you Daniel Jones would not be his QB) and we wouldn't be having this sad conversation. That may have been their biggest mistake. 

I agree with much of this. Don't forget Director of Player Personnel Tim McDonnell...who also just happens to be Wellington Mara's grandson, which makes him another unfireable, unaccountable executive in a senior management position. 

Quote from: files58 on September 11, 2024, 11:19:51 AMWe moan, bitch, throw up(literally) our hands in disgust to what end? Success can be measured in a number of ways. In 2014 the value of the Giants was about $2.1 Billion, today 10 years later it's $7.3 Billion. A more than threefold increase during a time when the owners/mgmt. have put out a vastly inferior product. Nice gig if you are an investor, not so nice for us fans whose currency is measured in wins and losses. Must be quite a party in the exec offices sometime after the Super Bowl when the financials are passed out, and the suits are smoking Cubans going harumph, harumph, harumph(Mara "I didn't get a harumph out of you"). $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ mitigates the losses on the field for the owners, not for us. Mara can throw all the chairs he wants, it's a show. While it won't change anything I would like Mara to hear in a meeting/interview type of session to hear what I wrote.

Fine, but all 32 fan bases can claim the above. And yet few if any at all have to endure the degree of ineptitude we've been forced to for the past decade.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on September 11, 2024, 04:38:34 AMThey have made a lot of big mistakes. But I believe the problems are structural.

1. John Mara seems like a nice guy but he is an unbelievably incompetent "Team President". He's there because he's a co-owner. Anyone else would have been fired from that job 8-9 years ago.

2. Chris Mara also can't be fired from his job despite being demonstrably incompetent over the last 13 years because, like John Mara, he is a co-owner.

3. This means that two incompetent people are ultimate decision-makers on the team, and no one can get rid of them, or hold them to account. The Giants will never be good as long as these two guys are running the show. It was the same when Wellington Mara their very nice-guy dad was in charge. In 1979, there was a rebel in the family (Tim Mara Jr.) who could shake things up and force the NFL to intervene. No such person exists today. The co-owners, the Tisch family, don't know anything about football.

4. Look closely at the Joe Judge hire. Who in their right minds would hire that guy as a head coach. Easily the worst NFL head coach of any team in the last 15 years. He had no resume. All he had was the ability to act like a coach on TV, and that, plus a phone call with Bill Belichik (who only produced NFL head coaching failures in the NFL and failed himself as soon as he didn't have Tom Brady) was enough to hire him. That was after they had hired Ben McAdoo and Pat Shurmur, who weren't much better. A braintrust that makes these hires doesn't know what it's doing, is essentially hopeless.

5. Gettleman. Awful. But Schoen has been here three years now and the Giants are as bad as they've ever been. That's on the current leadership, starting with John and Chris Mara.

6. At the end of this season they will fire Schoen and Daboll. But John and Chris Mara will still be in charge of hiring the new guys and the result won't be much better. If instead of calling Belichik like they do every two years to get his instructions on who to hire as HC (which is what they did with both Judge and Daboll), they just hire Belichik himself to run the team, it will be an unmitigated disaster. This team could be like the Lions were for four decades. Consistently among the worst teams in the NFL, without any chance of success. 

7. They could have gone out and tried to get Jim Harbaugh, he wanted to come. We would be seeing a completely different team (I guarantee you Daniel Jones would not be his QB) and we wouldn't be having this sad conversation. That may have been their biggest mistake. 

I have read this twice and can't find anything with which I disagree.  As for point #7, that is WHY they don't want someone like Harbaugh. They have their concept of the chain of command.  They want their say and they are not going to hire someone who won't adhere to it.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 11, 2024, 08:19:33 PMFine, but all 32 fan bases can claim the above. And yet few if any at all have to endure the degree of ineptitude we've been forced to for the past decade.

Absolutely. However I only care about the Giants, and them winning on the field(s). In the past 10 years Mara has screwed up in fantastic fashion yet the team's value has more than tripled. Can you name another business where producing a vastly inferior product has led to financial success? Where is the incentive to win games with a triple fold increase in value?

Quote from: files58 on September 12, 2024, 10:11:01 AMAbsolutely. However I only care about the Giants, and them winning on the field(s). In the past 10 years Mara has screwed up in fantastic fashion yet the team's value has more than tripled. Can you name another business where producing a vastly inferior product has led to financial success? Where is the incentive to win games with a triple fold increase in value?

A free medium soda wasn't enough?

Quote from: files58 on September 12, 2024, 10:11:01 AMAbsolutely. However I only care about the Giants, and them winning on the field(s). In the past 10 years Mara has screwed up in fantastic fashion yet the team's value has more than tripled. Can you name another business where producing a vastly inferior product has led to financial success? Where is the incentive to win games with a triple fold increase in value?

In the hierarchy of caring about winning, the owners are at the bottom.  Next up are the players.  It's the fans and the GM/coaches that care about winning.  The former because that's the definition of a fan and the latter because their jobs are on the line.

Quote from: TONKA56 on September 12, 2024, 11:12:51 AMA free medium soda wasn't enough?

I don't like Pepsi, I'm a Coke guy.

Quote from: files58 on September 12, 2024, 02:16:03 PMI don't like Pepsi, I'm a Coke guy.

So was LT! 

Quote from: kingm56 on September 10, 2024, 06:11:57 PMFirst, I believe firing Tom C was completely justified as the team had three consecutive losing seasons. The blunders are all tied together:

1. Not firing Reese with Coach C,
2. Hiring a GM who failed to realize the game had fundamentally changed. 
  --He was building the roster with an irrelevant play book.
3. As a byproduct of building a team to run the football, and stop the run, we wasted our #2 overall pick on Barkley

What I wished would have happened: Fire Tom C and Jerry Reese, move on from Eli, and draft Allen.  It all started with our failure to fire Reese the same year as Coughlin, every poor decision from that point (drafting Carter, drafting Toony over Parsons, etc..) was a byproduct of that blunder.   

You see draft picks failing year after year, a starting QB who was on the other side of his career, and coach that lost the locker room. They should have cleaned house.

For all the xxxx McAdoo gets, he led the team to the playoffs his first year and if not for Dak having a rookie season for the ages they could have had a bye that year. He just couldn't convince Mara to make post Eli plans.

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For me, I wanted Daniel Jones in 2019. Like most, I was hoping the Giants would take him with the 17th pick. Unfortunately, the Giants elected to take him with the 6th pick even after Josh Hines-Allen, Edge, Kentucky, inexplicably fell past the 5th pick. Allen put up 17.5 sacks last season and was signed to a big deal and Jones is still trying to find his way back to his 2022 production. Every time I watch Dallas and think, "I wish we had a player like Parsons" I am reminded of choices made in 2019.

Wellington Mara not selling the team before his death. Everything else flows from the sheer incompetence of John and Chris Mara.

NY Giants biggest mistake in the past 10 years was not cleaning house when they let Tom Coughlin go and go into a complete rebuild. This means GM, who everyone knew was on his way out, and QB. They needed to find a head hunter to properly search for a new GM to run all football operations and build the team from the ground up. Manning wasn't going to do anything with what was left of the line and the rest of the offense and had some trade value. That was the time to develop a new QB and start building a line and rebuilding the defense. Instead it's been plug and play, draft picks and free agents that fill the biggest needs from the previous season and coaches and GM's that impress John Mara.

Making Kevin Gilbride the scapegoat after 2013, when Gilbride had been warning the Giants front office for years that the OL was running on fumes. They should've just cleaned house then instead of the ridiculous charade of forcing McAdoo on Coughlin. I'll never forget TC refusing the shake Mara's hand during his goodbye press conference. Imagine what it took for a man of Coughlin's integrity to do that?

The Giants had a proven, 2-time Super Bowl winning coaching staff who had an established pipeline of players that fit their scheme. And Mara decided they didn't know how to coach anymore. They've been wandering the desert ever since.

Quote from: 4 Aces on September 14, 2024, 06:37:16 PMMaking Kevin Gilbride the scapegoat after 2013, when Gilbride had been warning the Giants front office for years that the OL was running on fumes. They should've just cleaned house then instead of the ridiculous charade of forcing McAdoo on Coughlin. I'll never forget TC refusing the shake Mara's hand during his goodbye press conference. Imagine what it took for a man of Coughlin's integrity to do that?

The Giants had a proven, 2-time Super Bowl winning coaching staff who had an established pipeline of players that fit their scheme. And Mara decided they didn't know how to coach anymore. They've been wandering the desert ever since.

That's what started it. Mara, who doesn't know anymore than any of us, interfering with the coaching staff, one piece at a time.