Big Blue Huddle

Why would they even think of keeping Jones on the Roster next season at a cost of $41.6 million plus what they will have to pay for a high 1st Round QB in the Draft given that the Giants are likely to have its 5th losing season in his 6 years?

Personally, I see little chance that DJ is still with the Giants at QB next year. It seems to me that at some point in the season, Schoen/Daboll/Mara will have to decide when to sit him so as to avoid the possibility of an injury triggering the need to pay him most of next years $41+ millions. As it now stands, if they part ways while avoiding such disaster, they will only have to manage $22 million in Dead Cap space going forward.

As for messing around with the current top-pick failure of Bryce Young, why would I expect him to be so much better on the Giants, not to mention the cost involved? While next year's Draft will be no different from those earlier or later, with the odds of success rarely more than even if and when you have "Lady Luck" smiling on you, they still gotta roll 'em.

AND LET ME MAKE CLEAR- Whomever we may choose to blame for it all: Gettleman, Mara's meddling/nepo-cronyism, whether or not to add Schoen & Daboll, it should not include Daniel Jones. He is the one person among them who is not responsible for any such decisions made and thus is totally and absolutely blameless in the matter. He has made and can be expected to continue to make every honest effort to succeed and to earn every nickel of the money paid.

Cheers!

Well, according to his coaches, he is excellent at reading defenses. I'm no coach and I have no inside information, but I believe his QB coaches know whether or not DJ understands and reads defenses

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on September 19, 2024, 03:22:16 PMWell, according to his coaches, he is excellent at reading defenses. I'm no coach and I have no inside information, but I believe his QB coaches know whether or not DJ understands and reads defenses

How many coaches come out and say "my guy is terrible at reading defenses"? I don't put much credence into puffery of the starting QB.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on September 19, 2024, 03:22:16 PMWell, according to his coaches, he is excellent at reading defenses. I'm no coach and I have no inside information, but I believe his QB coaches know whether or not DJ understands and reads defenses

Daboll has stated Jones is the smartest QB he has ever had in the QB room. Jones did have an academic scholarship to Princeton. I think a lot of the "can't read defenses" rhetoric came from a Dan Orlovsky clip of one game last year . If you look at DJ on the sidelines in between downs, he almost always has his iPad out trying to figure out what the defenses are doing.

As to the claim that DJ only locks onto one receiver - what do you expect? He has never had an OL that gives him time to read the field and go through his progressions.


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Quote from: Painter on September 19, 2024, 03:20:37 PMWhy would they even think of keeping Jones on the Roster next season at a cost of $41.6 million plus what they will have to pay for a high 1st Round QB in the Draft given that the Giants are likely to have its 5th losing season in his 6 years?

Personally, I see little chance that DJ is still with the Giants at QB next year. It seems to me that at some point in the season, Schoen/Daboll/Mara will have to decide when to sit him so as to avoid the possibility of an injury triggering the need to pay him most of next years $41+ millions. As it now stands, if they part ways while avoiding such disaster, they will only have to manage $22 million in Dead Cap space going forward.

As for messing around with the current top-pick failure of Bryce Young, why would I expect him to be so much better on the Giants, not to mention the cost involved? While next year's Draft will be no different from those earlier or later, with the odds of success rarely more than even if and when you have "Lady Luck" smiling on you, they still gotta roll 'em.

AND LET ME MAKE CLEAR- Whomever we may choose to blame for it all: Gettleman, Mara's meddling/nepo-cronyism, whether or not to add Schoen & Daboll, it should not include Daniel Jones. He is the one person among them who is not responsible for any such decisions made and thus is totally and absolutely blameless in the matter. He has made and can be expected to continue to make every honest effort to succeed and to earn every nickel of the money paid.

Cheers!

Good points Larry. I think if the Giants want to keep DJ at the end of the year, he and his Agent fully understand they will be asked to renegotiate.


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Quote from: todge on September 19, 2024, 04:56:41 PMDaboll has stated Jones is the smartest QB he has ever had in the QB room. Jones did have an academic scholarship to Princeton. I think a lot of the "can't read defenses" rhetoric came from a Dan Orlovsky clip of one game last year . If you look at DJ on the sidelines in between downs, he almost always has his iPad out trying to figure out what the defenses are doing.

As to the claim that DJ only locks onto one receiver - what do you expect? He has never had an OL that gives him time to read the field and go through his progressions.


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My feelings precisely. He has a brilliant mind, but his eye-tell is his biggest flaw. I think it's because he's so skittish that he might make a mistake, that he locks in on his first target a little too long, and hesitates just a tad too much to make sure he won't end up making that possible dreaded mistake. Media and fans love to critique a player from the comfort of their own spot and then get to thrive when a mistake is made...and he feels it every time. You think he didn't hear those boos last Sunday? That's why I think we'll end up cutting him, and then he'll end up thriving on a smaller venue where old-fashioned laid back attitudes and kindness is inherent in the fan base (Indiana, Tennessee, KC [if they weren't already set] etc.), where every tiny detail isn't scrutinized to death by hungry unforgiving fans and making headlines in the press. Hell, look at Josh Allen in Buffalo - he throws three interceptions and the fans still cheer him on, even when they lose. Nothing like "no pressure". New York is a big, unforgiving stage and a pressure cooker - win, and you're king, lose and be taken to the shed and publicly chastised. It's been the fall of many an athlete in this city. If he just didn't give a sheet what fans think or what the press was saying, he'd probably play like a superstar...but he does care, and that's the big problem IMHO

Quote from: MrGap92 on September 19, 2024, 12:14:32 PMWe already are in QB hell

FYI - the "QB hell" terminology was a Dave Gettleman reference to teams that enter the Draft seemingly every year looking for a competent starting QB.   

Granted - the Giants did go into this Draft looking for certain QBs but I believe that was because Jones is injury prone.


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Quote from: MightyGiants on September 19, 2024, 11:04:57 AMHave you considered the constant change in schemes and coaching staff?  How many play-callers has he played under?

Season 3 with Daboll/Kafka. Outside of the smoke and mirrors of the first year (which wasn't all that impressive but managed to get into the playoffs), it's been downhill from there.

Why?

The league adapts whereas Jones...doesn't. Doesn't matter who the offensive playcaller is, he just doesn't perform at the level that the #6 overall pick should perform.

Absolutely not.

Jones is not nearly good enough to justify his cost, and he is not nearly durable enough. I have said before that you can easily replicate Jones in the free agent market (give or take) for a fraction of the price. And that's if you aren't in a position to draft a top QB prospect and put him on a rookie contract, which we might be.

People can argue that the Giants "ruined Jones" if they want to, and maybe there is an element of truth to that, but the fact of the matter is that this is year six now, and it hasn't worked out. We gave him a contract he didn't earn and has not lived up to, and the franchise very badly needs to go in a new direction.

Quote from: todge on September 19, 2024, 05:39:39 PMFYI - the "QB hell" terminology was a Dave Gettleman reference to teams that enter the Draft seemingly every year looking for a competent starting QB.   

Granted - the Giants did go into this Draft looking for certain QBs but I believe that was because Jones is injury prone.


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I know the reference

QB Hell is drafting the wrong guy, and being stuck in mediocrity.

https://www.nj.com/giants/2018/01/gm_dave_gettleman_determined_to_keep_giants_out_of.html

"If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years," Gettleman told reporters at the Senior Bowl last week. "You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call quarterback hell. They've got quality defense, they've got a good special teams, and they're going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they've got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy."

Our records arent that good most years, which helps with the situation of "trading the farm", but I get it, you are bad, but good enough to suck at sucking, putting you out of position to draft the players you want yourself.

Quote from: Hadron on September 19, 2024, 05:48:51 PMSeason 3 with Daboll/Kafka. Outside of the smoke and mirrors of the first year (which wasn't all that impressive but managed to get into the playoffs), it's been downhill from there.

Why?

The league adapts whereas Jones...doesn't. Doesn't matter who the offensive playcaller is, he just doesn't perform at the level that the #6 overall pick should perform.

DJ played all of 5 games last year, so is it really accurate to say he is in year three, especially as he has a new play caller this season?

Quote from: MrGap92 on September 20, 2024, 09:51:41 AMI know the reference

QB Hell is drafting the wrong guy, and being stuck in mediocrity.

https://www.nj.com/giants/2018/01/gm_dave_gettleman_determined_to_keep_giants_out_of.html

"If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years," Gettleman told reporters at the Senior Bowl last week. "You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call quarterback hell. They've got quality defense, they've got a good special teams, and they're going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they've got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy."

Our records arent that good most years, which helps with the situation of "trading the farm", but I get it, you are bad, but good enough to suck at sucking, putting you out of position to draft the players you want yourself.

This is one of the few instances of Gettleman being correct! He took Jones and set the franchise back 5 years.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 20, 2024, 10:05:19 AMDJ played all of 5 games last year, so is it really accurate to say he is in year three, especially as he has a new play caller this season?

Plus the preseason. He looked like garbage last year too.

More TDs (via pick sixes) than TDs to his teammates from the start of last season until the mid-point of the Washington game?

Is this the hill you want to defend?

Quote from: Hadron on September 20, 2024, 10:31:03 AMPlus the preseason. He looked like garbage last year too.

More TDs (via pick sixes) than TDs to his teammates from the start of last season until the mid-point of the Washington game?

Is this the hill you want to defend?

Didn't Jones play like one preseason series last year?

Quote from: Gmo11 on September 20, 2024, 10:10:18 AMThis is one of the few instances of Gettleman being correct! He took Jones and set the franchise back 5 years.

6 now ☹️