Big Blue Huddle

We all remember this memorable line from Hard Knocks.

"You're paying the guy $40 million. It's not to hand the ball off to a $12 million back," Schoen said.


In light of the Giants' 0-2 start, I revisited this issue and considered what motivated such a comment from our GM.

Frankly, it appears Joe Schoen is looking at the team backward.   Smart team building is based on what you have, what you can get, and how you envision those pieces working together to create a successful team.

How much you pay a player should be based on the player's projected production, positional value, how the player contributes to the team's success, and a team's salary cap situation.   In other words, you should pay players based on how they fit into your vision for the successful team you are constructing.  You shouldn't be constructing the team based on what you have spent on players.   When I say spend, it can be salary or draft capital.

I believe the comment was a shot at Mara for the predicament he put them in with Jones extension.


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I like the fact that Barkley left. I don't think DJ would come into his own with Barkley there. Similar to Eli having Tiki. Sometimes you have to get rid of one to have another standout.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:02:59 AMI believe the comment was a shot at Mara for the predicament he put them in with Jones extension.


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Andrew,

Schoen said this in the middle of a strategy meeting.  HBO recorded hundreds of hours of tape, and there was no way Joe Schoen knew that particular comment would make the show.  If it was a shot at his boss, it was a poorly timed and executed shot, in my opinion.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on September 20, 2024, 11:08:49 AMI like the fact that Barkley left. I don't think DJ would come into his own with Barkley there. Similar to Eli having Tiki. Sometimes you have to get rid of one to have another standout.

That is the sort of reasoning Joe should have been expressing

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:09:23 AMAndrew,

Schoen said this in the middle of a strategy meeting.  HBO recorded hundreds of hours of tape, and there was no way Joe Schoen knew that particular comment would make the show.  If it was a shot at his boss, it was a poorly timed and executed shot, in my opinion.

I won't argue that Rich.
But what I will say is if your boss wants you to build a team, and then Strongly Suggests that you spend $40M a year on a player you're not 100% sold on
"We did everything we could to ruin this kid"
I have to believe at least a little bit of "I told you so" might leak out at some point.


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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:13:57 AMI won't argue that Rich.
But what I will say is if your boss wants you to build a team, and then Strongly Suggests that you spend $40M a year on a player you're not 100% sold on
"We did everything we could to ruin this kid"
I have to believe at least a little bit of "I told you so" might leak out at some point.


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Andrew,

I was taught to accept my boss's decisions and do the best I could in the framework provided.  I was taught you don't second guess your boss's decisions as it's disruptive and counter-productive.

Plus, we saw on HK Mara lets his GM make the decisions, so I have serious doubts that Mara forced DJ on the current regime, especially as Mara seemed to offer no defense of DJ when Schoen suggested they could go QB.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:22:08 AMAndrew,

I was taught to accept my boss's decisions and do the best I could in the framework provided.  I was taught you don't second guess your boss's decisions as it's disruptive and counter-productive.

Plus, we saw on HK Mara lets his GM make the decisions, so I have serious doubts that Mara forced DJ on the current regime, especially as Mara seemed to offer no defense of DJ when Schoen suggested they could go QB.

The whether or not to extend DJ was a year earlier than Hard Knocks.

However seeing Mara visibly hand wringing over Saquon and talking to Schoen about not getting any sleep because "Saquon is such a popular player" was an uncomfortable moment for me.

Mara seems to be consistent in allowing his emotions to steer his judgement where business decisions must be made. Look at the past 13+ years. It doesn't look like it's getting better. Who's the common denominator?

I was taught that's it's okay to challenge the process, especially if the consequences of the decision could cost you your job.


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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:28:56 AMThe whether or not to extend DJ was a year earlier than Hard Knocks.

However seeing Mara visibly hand wringing over Saquon and talking to Schoen about not getting any sleep because "Saquon is such a popular player" was an uncomfortable moment for me.

Mara seems to be consistent in allowing his emotions to steer his judgement where business decisions must be made. Look at the past 13+ years. It doesn't look like it's getting better. Who's the common denominator?

I was taught that's it's okay to challenge the process, especially if the consequences of the decision could cost you your job.


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Andrew,

I suspect that the decade-plus of futility has colored Mara's views.  The best way to increase revenue is to run a successful team.  Failing that, having stars that attract fans is the other option.  When Mara was talking about Barkley's popularity, I saw that as Mara looking at things from the business side rather than the football management side.  Mara knew Barkley brought in fans and certainly helped with Jersey sales.  Barkley's contributions to winning on the other hand...

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:22:08 AMAndrew,

I was taught to accept my boss's decisions and do the best I could in the framework provided.  I was taught you don't second guess your boss's decisions as it's disruptive and counter-productive.

Plus, we saw on HK Mara lets his GM make the decisions, so I have serious doubts that Mara forced DJ on the current regime, especially as Mara seemed to offer no defense of DJ when Schoen suggested they could go QB.

That military-like way of thinking is becoming less and less the norm in the workplace.

I have said this once and I will say it again.

We have a team with no QB...

But we also have a team with a very bad HC and GM.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:35:36 AMAndrew,

I suspect that the decade-plus of futility has colored Mara's views.  The best way to increase revenue is to run a successful team.  Failing that, having stars that attract fans is the other option.  When Mara was talking about Barkley's popularity, I saw that as Mara looking at things from the business side rather than the football management side.  Mara knew Barkley brought in fans and certainly helped with Jersey sales.  Barkley's contributions to winning on the other hand...

Respectfully, that should be the LAST thing on his mind.
Giants fans have always been about one thing: WINNING.
I'm tired of being a last place team!


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Quote from: MightyGiants on September 20, 2024, 11:35:36 AMAndrew,

I suspect that the decade-plus of futility has colored Mara's views.  The best way to increase revenue is to run a successful team.  Failing that, having stars that attract fans is the other option.  When Mara was talking about Barkley's popularity, I saw that as Mara looking at things from the business side rather than the football management side.  Mara knew Barkley brought in fans and certainly helped with Jersey sales.  Barkley's contributions to winning on the other hand...

Having Barkley doesnt add a nickel of revenue to the Giants.  Tickets are still sold.  Jersey sales are shared league wide.  Having him go to another team probably added money to the giants share of that revenue.  Giants fans already have Barkley jerseys.  A lot more Eagles fans went out and bought his jersey than Giants fans would.

Quote from: coggs on September 20, 2024, 11:36:39 AMThat military-like way of thinking is becoming less and less the norm in the workplace.

I have been in the working world for over 4 decades.   Second-guessing one's boss has always been popular, and certainly, the number of people who refrain from doing so is smaller.  However, among successful managers, it's still the norm from what I have seen.

Quote from: coggs on September 20, 2024, 11:39:08 AMHaving Barkley doesnt add a nickel of revenue to the Giants.  Tickets are still sold.  Jersey sales are shared league wide.  Having him go to another team probably added money to the giants share of that revenue.  Giants fans already have Barkley jerseys.  A lot more Eagles fans went out and bought his jersey than Giants fans would.

I have been researching.  If Barkley increases attendance, the team's revenue will increase via concessions.  I am not 100% sure, but I believe teams also make more money for team merch sold in their stadium stores (which, again, is fan-driven).  Ticket sales are 60/40 for the home team.  NFL teams keep all the suites and sponsor money (Which a marketable name like Barkley will help).

The NFL has marketing deals with merchandising companies, and that money is shared.