Big Blue Huddle

Gino Smith has turned into a very good QB
Who would have known?

Maybe, and this is just me being a Wednesday afternoon QB, what would the Giants fortune today be if we had kept Gino and never drafted Jones.
Maybe Macadoo was right all along about Smith

Say we kept Smith and he plays the way he has, we would never have drafted Jones and who knows how our fortunes would have turned.

Gosh maybe Macadoo might still be out coach.

I don't even think McAdoo thought Geno would be anything more than serviceable.  If he said otherwise now he'd be lying.  I do think he wanted Mahomes though and if they had done that instead he'd definitely still be the Giants coach right now.

I think a lot of teams are re-thinking whether they are asking too much from their QBs early as they watch Mayfield, Darnold, Love, and Geno Smith looking every bit like the players everyone thought they would be when they were drafted. The Rams traded picks and Goff for Stafford to win a Superbowl and got it right initially, but I wonder if they wish Goff was still in LA NOW.

Howie Long said on FOX pregame that he used to think where a QB went had 50% to do with his success. Then he said he now thinks it might be 90%. There is some truth to that. The right fit matters. I truly believe now that Geno Smith had a limited upside as the NY QB.

Daniel Jones also has a limited upside. I also think he will be a successful QB in this league somewhere else. He is trying to follow a NY legend here. He will never meet expectations and had to work through injuries the way Mayfield and Smith did early. Just keep working young man.

Quote from: bamagiantfan on October 02, 2024, 08:01:47 PMI think a lot of teams are re-thinking whether they are asking too much from their QBs early as they watch Mayfield, Darnold, Love, and Geno Smith looking every bit like the players everyone thought they would be when they were drafted. The Rams traded picks and Goff for Stafford to win a Superbowl and got it right initially, but I wonder if they wish Goff was still in LA NOW.

Howie Long said on FOX pregame that he used to think where a QB went had 50% to do with his success. Then he said he now thinks it might be 90%. There is some truth to that. The right fit matters. I truly believe now that Geno Smith had a limited upside as the NY QB.

Daniel Jones also has a limited upside. I also think he will be a successful QB in this league somewhere else. He is trying to follow a NY legend here. He will never meet expectations and had to work through injuries the way Mayfield and Smith did early. Just keep working young man.

I also think he'll be more successful elsewhere than he ever will be here.

Is it because of expectations? Personally, I don't think so. I don't think the expectations are very high for him but they are definitely higher than what he's shown over the past 6 seasons.

It definitely would have been interesting to see Geno start the following season but McAdoo handled that situation bass ackwards, IMHO. I also don't know how much meddling Mara did but I truly believe the outrage from us fans probably contributed heavily to McAdoo's firing.

I agree Tim, with you and with Mitch. I too feel that Daniel Jones might do better if not thrive somewhere not so upside-down as Our Heroes have been for almost all of the past dozen years. The big question I have about DJ is not about his physical skills but whether he can be demanding enough of others to be seen and heard as a leader.

As for the Giants more recent Head Coach history, I wasn't thrilled with McAdoo, with or without his foolish Genocide, nor with Shurmur or Judge, none of whom will ever get another HC job. Then again, I wasn't thrilled when Mara hired Coughlin although I've never been pleased to play the "blame game" so I bit my tongue which proved to have been a wise decision.

Not true! I lied! I howled with displeasure from the very instant I learned that Mara, with Accorsi covering for him, had again resumed the family's practice of nepo-cronyism in hiring Gettleman as GM for which I claim no credit for having been right. There is far too much blaming and vacuous credit-taking by the fan base.

In any case, we now face at least one, maybe two critical questions: Will Daniel Jones continue as the Giants QB after this year? Will Brian Daboll still be the HC? If I was a betting man, I'd wager a NO in both cases while not wishing it so.

Cheers! 

Quote from: T200 on October 03, 2024, 07:43:49 AMIt definitely would have been interesting to see Geno start the following season but McAdoo handled that situation bass ackwards, IMHO. I also don't know how much meddling Mara did but I truly believe the outrage from us fans probably contributed heavily to McAdoo's firing.

IMO, one of the reasons for all of the outrage about starting Geno was breaking Eli's record of never missing a game.  I wonder how much, if at all, things might have gone differently if he had replaced Eli with Geno at the half of a game where the offense had a poor first half.  And Lord knows, there were plenty of those.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 03, 2024, 11:37:30 AMIMO, one of the reasons for all of the outrage about starting Geno was breaking Eli's record of never missing a game.  I wonder how much, if at all, things might have gone differently if he had replaced Eli with Geno at the half of a game where the offense had a poor first half.  And Lord knows, there were plenty of those.

That was THE ONLY reason for the outrage.

Quote from: T200 on October 03, 2024, 12:05:16 PMThat was THE ONLY reason for the outrage.

At the time, it would have been akin to Joe McCarthy cutting off Lou Gehrig's "Iron-Man" streak of 2,130 consecutive games played when he first became the Yankees' manager in 1931 (NOTE: Gehrig took himself out of the lineup in May of 1939).

The handling of Eli's situation was so poorly planned and executed that everyone from the top of the organization to the head coach should have been executed for such a classless and embarrassing handling which brought great shame and discredit on them and the Giants' name, as a whole, that I wouldn't be surprised if the "ghosts of the past" still haunt John Mara to this very day because of it.

No offense to Gino Smith at all, and it is good to see that he rejuvenated his career after escaping both New York football clubs. But the Giants' job was never going to be his from the get-go; he knew it coming in and there should never have been a controversy in the first place. If Mac wanted him to play, then he just as easily could have inserted him at any point in either a fourth quarter situation or, at best, give him a second half to work and showcase himself since the Giants were a dumpster fire that year and he would be moving on anyway.

I'm sorry, but you do not treat your legendary Quarterback by benching him and ending what was a significant NFL milestone he was pursuing; regardless of whether or not he said he didn't care about it. It was far greater than about him, THAT'S the point and Mac and everyone above him missed the mark on what it was supposed to mean.

They now reap what they have sown.

Eli Manning, meanwhile, is a few months away from the ultimate crowning glory. May he not be denied.

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on October 03, 2024, 01:56:07 PMAt the time, it would have been akin to Joe McCarthy cutting off Lou Gehrig's "Iron-Man" streak of 2,130 consecutive games played when he first became the Yankees' manager in 1931 (NOTE: Gehrig took himself out of the lineup in May of 1939).

The handling of Eli's situation was so poorly planned and executed that everyone from the top of the organization to the head coach should have been executed for such a classless and embarrassing handling which brought great shame and discredit on them and the Giants' name, as a whole, that I wouldn't be surprised if the "ghosts of the past" still haunt John Mara to this very day because of it.

No offense to Gino Smith at all, and it is good to see that he rejuvenated his career after escaping both New York football clubs. But the Giants' job was never going to be his from the get-go; he knew it coming in and there should never have been a controversy in the first place. If Mac wanted him to play, then he just as easily could have inserted him at any point in either a fourth quarter situation or, at best, give him a second half to work and showcase himself since the Giants were a dumpster fire that year and he would be moving on anyway.

I'm sorry, but you do not treat your legendary Quarterback by benching him and ending what was a significant NFL milestone he was pursuing; regardless of whether or not he said he didn't care about it. It was far greater than about him, THAT'S the point and Mac and everyone above him missed the mark on what it was supposed to mean.

They now reap what they have sown.

Eli Manning, meanwhile, is a few months away from the ultimate crowning glory. May he not be denied.

Peace!

Not a word you typed was wasted. Excellent post. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

Quote from: kartanoman on October 03, 2024, 01:56:07 PMAt the time, it would have been akin to Joe McCarthy cutting off Lou Gehrig's "Iron-Man" streak of 2,130 consecutive games played when he first became the Yankees' manager in 1931 (NOTE: Gehrig took himself out of the lineup in May of 1939).

The handling of Eli's situation was so poorly planned and executed that everyone from the top of the organization to the head coach should have been executed for such a classless and embarrassing handling which brought great shame and discredit on them and the Giants' name, as a whole, that I wouldn't be surprised if the "ghosts of the past" still haunt John Mara to this very day because of it.

No offense to Gino Smith at all, and it is good to see that he rejuvenated his career after escaping both New York football clubs. But the Giants' job was never going to be his from the get-go; he knew it coming in and there should never have been a controversy in the first place. If Mac wanted him to play, then he just as easily could have inserted him at any point in either a fourth quarter situation or, at best, give him a second half to work and showcase himself since the Giants were a dumpster fire that year and he would be moving on anyway.

I'm sorry, but you do not treat your legendary Quarterback by benching him and ending what was a significant NFL milestone he was pursuing; regardless of whether or not he said he didn't care about it. It was far greater than about him, THAT'S the point and Mac and everyone above him missed the mark on what it was supposed to mean.

They now reap what they have sown.

Eli Manning, meanwhile, is a few months away from the ultimate crowning glory. May he not be denied.

Peace!

Lou Gehrig was best 1B in all of baseball in 1931 and only 28 years old. Eli was 36 and a shell of his former self at his position. Not an accurate comparison at all.

So should Eli still be starting today if he manage never to get injured?
What if the streak still existed 2 games into 2019? Should he still kept playing instead of handing the ball to Jones?
It's not like Eli held the NFL start record. That belonged and still does to Favre. At some point you need to do what's best for the team and not one player.

As for letting Eli start and replace him at halftime with Geno he was offered that plan and told McAdoo to just start him. It may have been a bluff that was called. 

Quote from: TDToomer on October 03, 2024, 02:46:03 PMLou Gehrig was best 1B in all of baseball in 1931 and only 28 years old. Eli was 36 and a shell of his former self at his position. Not an accurate comparison at all.

So should Eli still be starting today if he manage never to get injured?
What if the streak still existed 2 games into 2019? Should he still kept playing instead of handing the ball to Jones?
It's not like Eli held the NFL start record. That belonged and still does to Favre. At some point you need to do what's best for the team and not one player.

As for letting Eli start and replace him at halftime with Geno he was offered that plan and told McAdoo to just start him. It may have been a bluff that was called. 

Peace, a loose comparison, not intended for anything more than just the conceptual idea of the matter and not actual comparison to Gehrig the player in '31 vs. Manning the player in '17. Technically, you are most correct in that regard but, for the bizarre concept, which was all I was attempting to articulate, I took a chance and you called me out on the actuals ... you've got me!

But for what was "good for the team," at that time, we were all debating that at the time, and could still do that today. Eli was the consummate and classy professional who had never displayed a selfish act as a Giant. He went with that plan to demonstrate solidarity with his head coach and his fellow quarterback.

I get your point on 2019 and, by then, we all agreed (including myself, albeit reluctantly) that it was his time and, with a new coach, a new rookie, it was in the best interest of all to yield to the future, which he did. The record would not have been anywhere near as important as preserving his consecutive games started streak for the Giants. As it stands now, he holds the team record and it is unlikely to be broken anytime soon. He would have fallen about a season short of games played had it continued to the Buffalo game in 2019.

In the end, the drama, the firings and the sadness of that week in ending his consecutive starts streak made for a dark, embarrassing display of a football club which had truly lost its way.

Still, they shouldn't have broken Eli's Iron-Man streak, no matter if Eli even suggested they do.

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on October 03, 2024, 03:08:24 PMPeace, a loose comparison, not intended for anything more than just the conceptual idea of the matter and not actual comparison to Gehrig the player in '31 vs. Manning the player in '17. Technically, you are most correct in that regard but, for the bizarre concept, which was all I was attempting to articulate, I took a chance and you called me out on the actuals ... you've got me!

But for what was "good for the team," at that time, we were all debating that at the time, and could still do that today. Eli was the consummate and classy professional who had never displayed a selfish act as a Giant. He went with that plan to demonstrate solidarity with his head coach and his fellow quarterback.

I get your point on 2019 and, by then, we all agreed (including myself, albeit reluctantly) that it was his time and, with a new coach, a new rookie, it was in the best interest of all to yield to the future, which he did. The record would not have been anywhere near as important as preserving his consecutive games started streak for the Giants. As it stands now, he holds the team record and it is unlikely to be broken anytime soon. He would have fallen about a season short of games played had it continued to the Buffalo game in 2019.

In the end, the drama, the firings and the sadness of that week in ending his consecutive starts streak made for a dark, embarrassing display of a football club which had truly lost its way.

Still, they shouldn't have broken Eli's Iron-Man streak, no matter if Eli even suggested they do.

Peace!

But what you are saying is that it would have been OK to bench Eli in 2017 had his consecutive streak not existed and you cannot run a successful team this way. You have to make hard decisions for the good of the team and 11 games into the 2017 season at 2-9 any team would have considered benching their QB.

Quote from: TDToomer on October 03, 2024, 03:37:24 PMBut what you are saying is that it would have been OK to bench Eli in 2017 had his consecutive streak not existed and you cannot run a successful team this way. You have to make hard decisions for the good of the team and 11 games into the 2017 season at 2-9 any team would have considered benching their QB.

I would disagree.  The time to bench the QB is about a month before you get to 2-9.  By that point it's too late to save the season.  So unless the backup is a rookie you want to get a look at because you think he's the future you're better off just riding it out.  Geno was on a 1 year contract I'm fairly sure.  If not it wasn't more than 2.  But nobody expected him to be the future of the franchise at that point.  This was a ploy to try and blame Eli for the team being crap rather than taking responsibility.  Say what you want about Daboll but he's never said Jones is the reason his teams have stunk, even though he is.

Quote from: TDToomer on October 03, 2024, 03:37:24 PMBut what you are saying is that it would have been OK to bench Eli in 2017 had his consecutive streak not existed and you cannot run a successful team this way. You have to make hard decisions for the good of the team and 11 games into the 2017 season at 2-9 any team would have considered benching their QB.

You have a good point but everything isn't black and white. There are extenuating and unique circumstances that warrant a change in standard policy.

Either way we look at it, it was what I have referred to as "Genocide" for both McAdoo and Smith at the time. Still, while it may have offended the faithful, it has had no real effect on Eli's march to the HOF than has what some have described as his profoundly mediocre career regular season record.

While I may have been unhappy about it at the time, I couldn't care less today as long as nothing interferes with Eli's eventual wearing of the gold jacket, not that McAdoo will have had anything to do with it either way.

Cheers!