Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 18, 2024, 11:28:03 AMHe has a supporting cast and almost singlehandedly lost the Bengals game,

Singlehandedly? Did you see the pathetic PFF grades for the entire offense? Not to mention they were without their best offensive weapon in Nabers. Throw in the fact the Giants are among the leaders in dropped passes supports the theory that a supporting cast is lacking. This isn't tennis.


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Quote from: TDToomer on October 18, 2024, 11:09:30 AMWell it keeps getting bumped to the top. The context and discussion of the thread is fine. It's just the trend of people using vague open ended questions as topic headers that is annoying.

That's not the point.

I knew what it was before reading as it came on the heels of the game / game thread discussion. I have a friend who is like this Daniel Jones is good becuase of the playhoff game, Any time the lose or Jones plays bad it is 'yeah but .... Slayton dropped the ball, people are hurt, FG kicker missed blah blah '

IKts never that Jones is a game manager anyway so why he gets credit then when there is a win?

Quote from: Painter on October 18, 2024, 04:43:43 PMI am repeating myself to say that I have always supported and have never faulted Daniel Jones at any time in his now 6th season. However, while recognizing that some QBs take longer and/or a better cast around them to reach a franchise potential, I don't now see in him anything like a necessary "take charge" leadership ability which I see in those others mentioned and which I think is essential and is either there now or never will be. Feeling bad for all concerned.

Cheers!

I'd love to see him remain part of the Giants franchise as a backup. In today's NFL it's necessary to have a good one. He would probably do well coming into a game where the pressure is less

Quote from: todge on October 18, 2024, 07:47:05 PMSinglehandedly? Did you see the pathetic PFF grades for the entire offense? Not to mention they were without their best offensive weapon in Nabers. Throw in the fact the Giants are among the leaders in dropped passes supports the theory that a supporting cast is lacking. This isn't tennis.


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So what is your point exactly? Are you saying Jones is as good a starting QB as a top 10 QB or no one knows yet and, the conservative offense approach is because or the suppoting cast?

You want to know the differencebetween a real top 10 QB and Jones and it'll be something he'll never be? Coming in at 10 I would think is like a Kirk COusins. 4 weeks ago I have seen him do a game winning drive in dramatic fashion against a pretty dan good Eagles team. He was pretty much the reason they won. 2 weeks ago he threw a 500 yard , 4 TD game; he is pretty much the reason they won.

Jones always just seems like a passenger ; like he is not playing the most important position in sports. He is just another player. he will dink and dunk to 200 yards and throw a TD. If your D is playing lights out and the other team muffs a punt of something -- you might win ....otherwise it is the Giants lot in life to lose a bunch of games.

Jones was once the guy but I think the Giants screwed him up. The organization was never good around him. Turmoil bad team bad offensive line. Not a good place to start a career. I think he is a good QB but he has gone through a lot with injuries and last year taking a ton of hits in such a short period of time I'm sure has done a number on him.
But he is not that guy who is going to get the Giants to the next level on a consistent basis.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 19, 2024, 11:49:54 AMJones was once the guy but I think the Giants screwed him up. The organization was never good around him. Turmoil bad team bad offensive line. Not a good place to start a career. I think he is a good QB but he has gone through a lot with injuries and last year taking a ton of hits in such a short period of time I'm sure has done a number on him.
But he is not that guy who is going to get the Giants to the next level on a consistent basis.

How do you reconcile the notion above with the fact DJ was NEVER a prolific passer, or plus QB?  He wasn't a 2+ star recruit out of HS, and only threw for 8x 300+ plus yard games in college, despite playing in the ACC, a conference littered with terrible defenses.  He may have all the physical tools; however, he never put them together, at ANY level.  DJ has always had a processing issue and simply lacks the ability to make anticipatory throws through tight windows.  This isn't a new revelation; Todd McShay and SVP nailed it on draft day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eSE1btffOE&ab_channel=ESPN

DJ reminds me of the hubris that exists in the NFL; the notion that coaching can magically transform a QB into something they're not is a myth. DJ was never "that guy."

Quote from: kingm56 on October 19, 2024, 12:24:57 PMHow do you reconcile the notion above with the fact DJ was NEVER a prolific passer, or plus QB?  He wasn't a 2+ star recruit out of HS, and only threw for 8x 300+ plus yard games in college, despite playing in the ACC, a conference littered with terrible defenses.  He may have all the physical tools; however, he never put them together, at ANY level.  DJ has always had a processing issue and simply lacks the ability to make anticipatory throws through tight windows.  This isn't a new revelation; Todd McShay and SVP nailed it on draft day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eSE1btffOE&ab_channel=ESPN

DJ reminds me of the hubris that exists in the NFL; the notion that coaching can magically transform a QB into something they're not is a myth. DJ was never "that guy."

He was a project QB at best. And the mental portion has never been sufficient to put the tools together. His rookie campaign was simple high-low read on one side of the field. 2022 and 2024 are basically one-read offenses, and the former he was a passenger to Saquon carrying the load. Shurmur and Daboll know what they're doing on the offensive side of the ball and they got the most of out of DJ by simplifying (and Daboll doing so when DJ was a vet).

Quote from: Fletch on October 18, 2024, 09:56:28 PMSo what is your point exactly? Are you saying Jones is as good a starting QB as a top 10 QB or no one knows yet and, the conservative offense approach is because or the suppoting cast?

You want to know the differencebetween a real top 10 QB and Jones and it'll be something he'll never be? Coming in at 10 I would think is like a Kirk COusins. 4 weeks ago I have seen him do a game winning drive in dramatic fashion against a pretty dan good Eagles team. He was pretty much the reason they won. 2 weeks ago he threw a 500 yard , 4 TD game; he is pretty much the reason they won.

Jones always just seems like a passenger ; like he is not playing the most important position in sports. He is just another player. he will dink and dunk to 200 yards and throw a TD. If your D is playing lights out and the other team muffs a punt of something -- you might win ....otherwise it is the Giants lot in life to lose a bunch of games.

Your 3rd paragraph is a brilliant summation of what DJ is as a QB.  I have been a supporter but now in the sixth year, this is who he is — a passenger as you so articulately wrote.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 19, 2024, 11:49:54 AMJones was once the guy but I think the Giants screwed him up. The organization was never good around him. Turmoil bad team bad offensive line. Not a good place to start a career. I think he is a good QB but he has gone through a lot with injuries and last year taking a ton of hits in such a short period of time I'm sure has done a number on him.
But he is not that guy who is going to get the Giants to the next level on a consistent basis.

Ultimately, is Jones any better than Dave Brown was?

Quote from: Fletch on October 18, 2024, 09:56:28 PMJones always just seems like a passenger ; like he is not playing the most important position in sports. He is just another player. he will dink and dunk to 200 yards and throw a TD. If your D is playing lights out and the other team muffs a punt of something -- you might win ....otherwise it is the Giants lot in life to lose a bunch of games.

Perfect description 💯

Quote from: Fletch on October 18, 2024, 09:56:28 PMJones always just seems like a passenger ; like he is not playing the most important position in sports. He is just another player. he will dink and dunk to 200 yards and throw a TD. If your D is playing lights out and the other team muffs a punt of something -- you might win ....otherwise it is the Giants lot in life to lose a bunch of games.

There is much to like about DJ. He's physically capable, a hard worker, and deserving of success. However, in his now 6th season, I have yet to see any sort of take-charge leadership from him or in him. I see it as a real limitation, if not a fatal flaw. Perhaps, with some more talent in support and some better luck, I may start to see him differently- I hope so- but I kinda doubt it.

Cheers!

As of right now, we draft number eight

Before today's game, we were at at number 12

If the Rams beat the Raiders will move up even more in the draft

If you haven't seen enough of Jones then you likely enjoy burning yourself on the stove and slamming your thumb with a hammer.

Quote from: Messiah717 on October 20, 2024, 04:17:50 PMIf you haven't seen enough of Jones then you likely enjoy burning yourself on the stove and slamming your thumb with a hammer.

LMAO!!

Quote from: Messiah717 on October 20, 2024, 04:17:50 PMIf you haven't seen enough of Jones then you likely enjoy burning yourself on the stove and slamming your thumb with a hammer.

Come on, Mess.

He needs another ten games before we get the hammer out with the stove