Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Messiah717 on October 20, 2024, 06:13:12 PMHe's an incompetent dog crap QB.  I know you want to die on this hill but this is becoming more annoying than the constant losing.  He doesn't have a home field TD pass in two friggin years.  Enough already.

Why bother? It's the same empty excuses week after week. Won't even assign an iota of blame to Jones for any of the significant offensive shortcomings.

As I said in the other thread, I would expect Daboll to say this.  If he said Jones was benched there is a VERY good chance he is speaking on emotion.  If he is going to make a change, he is going to announce it after he has settled down and is thinking straight.  Not as if Lock came in and was impressive. 

Quote from: todge on October 20, 2024, 06:01:10 PMIf the Franchise was set back then please explain 2022 when Jones led the team to a road playoff victory and earned a second contract. The Giants hadn't been to the playoffs in ten years. After the Vikings victory, (Jones 300 yards passing and 100 running) what did you expect Schoen to do? Not sign Jones and draft a QB so they can start all over again? Jones contract is now the 16th highest and has an out this year. It was a no brainer and Mara had nothing to do with it.

But go ahead - tell us what you would have done at the end of 2022.


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The mirage of 2022 set the franchise back. It hid the weakness the QB had and others. Did that winning season propel the team forward? Did it help build a foundation for the future? It blinded Giants brass to the truth and here we are.

Daboll has done absolutely nothing without Allen at QB. That's his only success. That's not actually a lot to hang your hat on..

At this point, you could be telling me it's 1996 again, judging by what's happening and what's happened the last couple of years.

The constant is a Duke QB who is a tough, stand-up human being who doesn't need this $hit in his life, would be better off going somewhere else if he still wants to play, and is intelligent enough to have a successful post-football career ahead of him. Dave Brown was all that and more despite the fact we abused the daylights out of him here and when he came out here to Arizona.

The head coach is fortunate his players haven't quit on him entirely; however, today was an omen in that there were signs they looked defeated with time left to play. In '96, Dan Reeves' men might have been overmatched, at times, but played hard for the lame duck head coach.

At least Daniel Jones won a playoff game. Dave Brown never led the Giants to one; though that six game winning streak to close out 1994, after starting off 3-0, then losing seven straight, was a commendable effort.

After Reeves was fired in New York, he took several of his Giants with him to Atlanta, made Chris Chandler his QB, struck gold with Anderson as his RB, and hit the lottery when the Vikings kicker, Gary Anderson, missed his first kick of the season in the 1998 NFC Championship game to open the door for the dirty birds to make the Super Bowl that year. Oh yes, Dan visited Giants Stadium in 1998 and obliterated the Giants. Why is it that former Giants ALWAYS seem to come back and exact revenge against the Big Blue???

Perhaps everyone on the team now, who will be elsewhere next year, will get their revenge upon their return as well. Such is always the case.

I can imagine the head coach, the QB and a few others are more fed up than us fans right now. They're lucky. They can go somewhere else and be successful, or not have to put up with this anymore. Us, on the other hand, we still have the Mara family around just as we always have, for 100 years, as the documentary will show us this Friday.

Ugh!

Quote from: jeremy2020 on October 20, 2024, 07:22:27 PMDaboll has done absolutely nothing without Allen at QB. That's his only success. That's not actually a lot to hang your hat on..

To be fair, this is true for all coaches, even the greats. Lil Bill is 85 and 102 without Brady; Andy Reid was a good HC with a good QB, a terrible HC without one, and a HoF'er with Mahomes.  Sean Payton has been bad without Brees, and is finally having fun again with a solid rookie. Sean McVay appears to forgot how to coach when his QB is injured and on and on.  In the modern NFL, having a QB is fundamental to winning. 

Quote from: kingm56 on October 20, 2024, 07:52:33 PMTo be fair, this is true for all coaches, even the greats. Lil Bill is 85 and 102 without Brady; Andy Reid was a good HC with a good QB, a terrible HC without one, and a HoF'er with Mahomes.  Sean Payton has been bad without Brees, and is finally having fun again with a solid rookie. Sean McVay appears to forgot how to coach when his QB is injured and on and on.  In the modern NFL, having a QB is fundamental to winning. 

Also ignores the job Daboll did in 2022 with one real weapon in Barkley. Hid Jones throwing and maximized his legs, hid the offensive line, rode Barkley to the playoffs. Not an earth shattering job, but given the severe limitations of the roster it's not insignificant. Shurmur and Judge sure as hell weren't putting that campaign together.

I don't think Daboll is McVay/Shanahan tier (obviously) or O'Connor. But I think he could be the tick below with a real QB. Guys were running free with regularity for the first few weeks before the league realized Jones was just incapable of throwing deep and there was no reason to defend past 10 yards. The offense was supposed to be a deep throwing attack and Jones can't even pretend to make those throws.

Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 20, 2024, 06:07:21 PMSaid it then and stick by it now- in retrospect it seems painfully obvious they should have TAGGED Jones and given Barkley a multi-year contract- not the other way around.

Yes but that's exactly what they tried to do. Barkley didn't want to be there. They offered him a number of contracts. He wanted out. They had to pivot at the very last minute to keep both following 2022 which at least appears to have have been owner requested if not mandated. They would have picked up Jones 5th year if they actually thought he might be any good

Quote from: todge on October 20, 2024, 06:06:40 PMMark Sanchez stated the team's offensive performance wasn't Jones fault. Daboll said the loss wasn't Jones' fault. Jones still gives them the best chance to win . But with no OL it doesn't make a difference.


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A coach isn't going to publicly blame any one player for a loss

Once Jones is gone, watch how well Theo and Bellinger show with a good QB (assuming we find one).

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 20, 2024, 10:02:43 PMYes but that's exactly what they tried to do. Barkley didn't want to be there. They offered him a number of contracts. He wanted out. They had to pivot at the very last minute to keep both following 2022 which at least appears to have have been owner requested if not mandated. They would have picked up Jones 5th year if they actually thought he might be any good

Not sure that's accurate when those last minute negotiations were happening before the deadline.  Barkley said over....and over.....and over.....that he wanted to be a Giant.  But obviously the total guaranteed money was the sticking point.  What I argued then is that Schoen should have bent just a LITTLE- and I mean, like, 2-4 million dollars TOTAL in the guarantees over the life of the contract for Saquon.  If he had done that, Barkley would have been signed and DJ would have had the franchise tag on him.  And to me, it's obvious now that that would have been a much better thing for our G-men than what happened (DJ getting the long-term contract and Saquon getting the tag). 

Russell Wilson looks like he found the fountain of youth.

Or is it a product of great coaching?

Quote from: Trench on October 20, 2024, 11:43:01 PMRussell Wilson looks like he found the fountain of youth.

Or is it a product of great coaching?

We're not ones that should talk but the Jets lol.

Nabers said he was open throughout the game.

The hot seat is getting hotter for the QB

Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 20, 2024, 10:58:01 PMNot sure that's accurate when those last minute negotiations were happening before the deadline.  Barkley said over....and over.....and over.....that he wanted to be a Giant.  But obviously the total guaranteed money was the sticking point.  What I argued then is that Schoen should have bent just a LITTLE- and I mean, like, 2-4 million dollars TOTAL in the guarantees over the life of the contract for Saquon.  If he had done that, Barkley would have been signed and DJ would have had the franchise tag on him.  And to me, it's obvious now that that would have been a much better thing for our G-men than what happened (DJ getting the long-term contract and Saquon getting the tag). 

We may never know for sure but I feel pretty strongly that they could have done that deal with Jones at any point and he'd have accepted and the reason they did it at the last possible moment before the deadline was that they preferred doing it with Barkley.

We saw on hard knocks that by that point Barkley didn't want to be here and who could blame him? Whether the year before things were different is anybody's guess but regardless of what he was saying in public by the end of it he had zero intentions of signing with the Giants no matter what they offered.

I also think it was the best thing for everybody involved. Including the Giants. There's no need to pay a 27/28 year old RB that much when they have Jones at QB and a questionable OL. Signing him likely prevents them from getting either the new LG or RT. And also probably doesn't allow them to trade for burns. It sucks watching him thrive for a bitter rival especially in a revenge game but I still think in terms of building a complete team at that stage in the rebuild it was the best thing for them to move on.