Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Messiah717 on October 29, 2024, 11:41:46 PMWhen Daniel Jones finally goes no team will be clamoring for him to be their starter. 

If he wants it, he will have a decent tenure in the league as a backup.  He is a actually a solid 2nd string QB

I agree, he would be a top 5-10 backup in the league.

boll is a problem. If you are going to scrutinize Jones for that then you have to call into question the two point conversion which was totally unnecessary. You also have to call into question the special teams. The defense not getting there on an all out blitz and Wilson just chucking the ball to his receiver and getting a TD. That is coaching. Then you have to question the GM for having to Tattoos from Fantasy Island running around with no catch radius. You have to call out Nabers for dropping balls again.
Daboll is a problem he should be fired he has literally made Jones worse. Daboll has cost the Giants games. The fact that he threw Jones under the bus basically will lose him the locker room. This is the guy that say we have to look at the tapes. The other players now know who the real Daboll is. He makes his offensive lineman look weak because he needs chip blocks this is your prized free agent acquisition and he needs chip blocks.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 30, 2024, 09:07:22 AM boll is a problem. If you are going to scrutinize Jones for that then you have to call into question the two point conversion which was totally unnecessary. You also have to call into question the special teams. The defense not getting there on an all out blitz and Wilson just chucking the ball to his receiver and getting a TD. That is coaching. Then you have to question the GM for having to Tattoos from Fantasy Island running around with no catch radius. You have to call out Nabers for dropping balls again.
Daboll is a problem he should be fired he has literally made Jones worse. Daboll has cost the Giants games. The fact that he threw Jones under the bus basically will lose him the locker room. This is the guy that say we have to look at the tapes. The other players now know who the real Daboll is. He makes his offensive lineman look weak because he needs chip blocks this is your prized free agent acquisition and he needs chip blocks.

I didn't know Daboll called the special teams and defensive plays too?

He took Jones to the playoff, an absolute miracle, can't say he made him worse, he was never that good.

Whatever with that playoff win.  They got their asses handed to them by Philly and still can't beat them or the Cowboys.  And now the Commanders have ridden a resurgent wave into first place. 

Quote from: Messiah717 on October 30, 2024, 09:46:59 AMWhatever with that playoff win.  They got their asses handed to them by Philly and still can't beat them or the Cowboys.  And now the Commanders have ridden a resurgent wave into first place. 

If that was directed at me, you took my post way out of context.

I agree with you that the MIN WC Game is way exaggerated.

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 30, 2024, 08:56:50 AMI agree, he would be a top 5-10 backup in the league.

Taysom Hill comes to mind

Quote from: MrGap92 on October 30, 2024, 09:23:42 AMI didn't know Daboll called the special teams and defensive plays too?

He took Jones to the playoff, an absolute miracle, can't say he made him worse, he was never that good.

Maybe Jones took him to the playoffs. And if you think about how you said you didn't know he was in charge or Special teams or Defense. By that standard it was Kafka that took Jones to the playoffs.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 30, 2024, 10:12:42 AMMaybe Jones took him to the playoffs. And if you think about how you said you didn't know he was in charge or Special teams or Defense. By that standard it was Kafka that took Jones to the playoffs.

With all due respect, this may be the most hyperbolic thing I have ever read.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 30, 2024, 09:07:22 AM boll is a problem. If you are going to scrutinize Jones for that then you have to call into question the two point conversion which was totally unnecessary. You also have to call into question the special teams. The defense not getting there on an all out blitz and Wilson just chucking the ball to his receiver and getting a TD. That is coaching. Then you have to question the GM for having to Tattoos from Fantasy Island running around with no catch radius. You have to call out Nabers for dropping balls again.
Daboll is a problem he should be fired he has literally made Jones worse. Daboll has cost the Giants games. The fact that he threw Jones under the bus basically will lose him the locker room. This is the guy that say we have to look at the tapes. The other players now know who the real Daboll is. He makes his offensive lineman look weak because he needs chip blocks this is your prized free agent acquisition and he needs chip blocks.

Forget about Daboll for a moment. The TEAM knows they cannot win with Jones at QB. The evidence IS on the field and on the tapes. He will literally get his receivers knocked out because he has no anticipation, and has difficulty hitting a receiver on the run. The playoff win is ancient history, and obviously now an aberration. It's akin to calling Jones a structural engineer because he put together a Lego set.

Daboll has his fair share of issues.  Not sure there are many if any denying that. 

I would be fine if they fire him, especially if the plan is to draft a QB high in 2025.  I don't want them to draft a QB, have said QB play or sit his rookie year, learn the Daboll/Kafka system and then fire Daboll and have the QB learn a 2nd system in his 2nd year. Its a pet peeve of mine for teams to draft a QB and fire the staff after the QBs rookie year.

The 2022 offense was Daboll and Kafka basically recreating what Denver did with Tebow.  They had a RB that caused defenses to plan for him and they game planned with that in mind and were able to make that work for a season. 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 30, 2024, 10:38:02 AMDaboll has his fair share of issues.  Not sure there are many if any denying that. 

I would be fine if they fire him, especially if the plan is to draft a QB high in 2025.  I don't want them to draft a QB, have said QB play or sit his rookie year, learn the Daboll/Kafka system and then fire Daboll and have the QB learn a 2nd system in his 2nd year. Its a pet peeve of mine for teams to draft a QB and fire the staff after the QBs rookie year.

The 2022 offense was Daboll and Kafka basically recreating what Denver did with Tebow.  They had a RB that caused defenses to plan for him and they game planned with that in mind and were able to make that work for a season. 

I agree with you I don't want Daboll near the new QB. Start fresh with a well established head coach with a winning history. New QB new Coach, only way I bring Daboll back is if the Giants decide to go all in on Arch Manning which is another year away.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 30, 2024, 10:56:46 AMI agree with you I don't want Daboll near the new QB. Start fresh with a well established head coach with a winning history. New QB new Coach, only way I bring Daboll back is if the Giants decide to go all in on Arch Manning which is another year away.

If you keep hiring retreads, there will one day be zero established coaches in the NFL, then what?

You can't eliminate candidates in a vacuum because of people unrelated to them, regardless of your opinion or where you stand on Daboll.

Quote from: T200 on October 29, 2024, 02:04:23 PMAfter 6 years, I think it's fair to say that just about everyone on this board has taken a stance one way or another on Jones.

I think this might be an oversimplistic view.  People's judgement changes over time.  For myself, I started out as a supporter of Jones, although I wasn't fooled by the smoke and mirrors of 2022. But I completely agreed with Mara (and still do) that the Giants had done everything possible to screw him up.  I wanted to see how he'd do with at least average OL support and a good weapon.  This season was that chance. 

Daboll hindered that with his ridiculous preseason that sent him out in game 1 with only one half of live game time after being out nearly a year.  But the rust did come off, quicker than I expected, and he had a few decent games.  But then he didn't continue that.  After those decent games I wanted to wait until the end of the season to draw a conclusion.

But at this point I am below 10% chance of anything positive happening.  And if they decide to sit him to avoid triggering the injury clause I'd not quibble.  Because the worst possible case would be a double whammy of him getting a severe injury, killing the CAP for next year, coupled with Locke/DeVito/FA QB coming in and winning a few games and killing their draft position. 

Although I am also utterly skittish of the Giants' ability to find and draft a QB and develop him.  I don't know if Daboll really can be a QB guru, because it doesn't seem like he's done much for Jones.  And beyond that I have little confidence in his ability as a coach, from his mismanagement of the preseason to his volatile outbursts to his penchant for putting certain players in his doghouse.  Essentially he's shown me nothing.

And I don't have a lot of confidence in Schoen's drafting, if judgement is going to be required.  And I don't have a lot of confidence in the scouting team, if Hard Knocks was anything like an accutate portrayal.  Too young, too inexperienced, too politically correct.

I've mentioned before that I follow the Premier League in Britain, and I see parallels between the Giants and Manchester United.  It's a little different in that in futbol the team manager is frequently a combination of what would be the HC & GM in the NFL.  Man U had a great manager in Sir Alex Ferguson.  The Giants had a great management team in Acorsi/Coughlin.  And in both cases once they were retired, the team proved utterly incapable of finding adequate replacements.  Both teams have churned through a variety of coaches, each seemingly worse than the other.  Man U just sacked their latest coach.  Can the Giants be far behind? 

Fortunately I'm not a Man U supporter.  But I AM a Giants' fan and, sadly, my interest in devoting time, energy, and hope in them is rapidly waning.  Hopefully it will be temporary and in a couple of years some positive change will occur, but I can't say I'm all that hopeful.  I'm not like some of you guys who will stick with them through thick and thin, and that probably makes me a bad fan.  So be it.

IAC, I guess this rambling post has gone far afield from where it started.  But it is where I stand at the present time.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on October 30, 2024, 01:31:23 PMI think this might be an oversimplistic view.  People's judgement changes over time.  For myself, I started out as a supporter of Jones, although I wasn't fooled by the smoke and mirrors of 2022. But I completely agreed with Mara (and still do) that the Giants had done everything possible to screw him up.  I wanted to see how he'd do with at least average OL support and a good weapon.  This season was that chance. 

But at this point I am below 10% chance of anything positive happening. 

You're right, it's a very oversimplistic view. There is so much nuance surrounding the Jones tenure that it could be a 6-part mini series and stuff would still be left out.

My whole point stands in that a vast majority of the folks have their minds made up. There are still some who would like to see the season play out in full before cementing their stance. I imagine they already know which way they're leaning... just like the election in 6 days. And just like the election, we'll find out soon enough and there will still be discussions and disagreements.