Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 09:19:28 AM@T200

I have a hard time understanding how you could claim this wasn't a drop

If Tracy is running to the right of the screen (towards the defender) then that's a drop.  If he's running full speed in the other direction and has to turn backwards to attempt to make that catch it becomes a hell of a lot more difficult.  Should he have caught it anyway?  Maybe, but even if he does he's getting tackled immediately whereas if the ball is put where it should be put he catches it in stride without a challenge and also as an added bonus is running away from the guy that's trying to tackle him so there could be yards after the catch too.

Quote from: T200 on November 11, 2024, 09:39:35 AMDo you have a link to the video of that play?

https://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1855660360864338248

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 11, 2024, 09:47:19 AMShould he have caught it anyway?  Maybe,

NFL receivers are expected to catch a ball that's in both hands like that
 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 09:50:19 AMhttps://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1855660360864338248

Thanks

The video tells a more accurate story than the screenshot.

Yes, the ball hit him in both hands and he should have caught it.

Can you admit that it was a horrible pass to begin with that should have been thrown in front of Tracy instead of behind him, and if he doesn't catch it, it doesn't result in an interception?

Quote from: T200 on November 11, 2024, 09:54:41 AMYes, the ball hit him in both hands and he should have caught it.

That is the acknowledgment that I have spent two days and many posts trying to get.  Now we can circle to my point that Kurt Warner failed to point out that Tracy should have made the catch, which is why I think Warner had a bias against Jones (who certainly didn't need a bias for negative comments from the analyst)

QuoteCan you admit that it was a horrible pass to begin with that should have been thrown in front of Tracy instead of behind him, and if he doesn't catch it, it doesn't result in an interception?

I would say it was a bad pass.  "Horrible" seems hyperbolic to me as the ball hit the receiver in his hands.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 09:57:58 AMThat is the acknowledgment that I have spent two days and many posts trying to get.  Now we can circle to my point that Kurt Warner failed to point out that Tracy should have made the catch, which is why I think Warner had a bias against Jones (who certainly didn't need a bias for negative comments from the analyst)

I would say it was a bad pass.  "Horrible" seems hyperbolic to me as the ball hit the receiver in his hands.

Do you think a better pass from Jones results in a turnover in that situation?

Quote from: T200 on November 11, 2024, 10:02:20 AMDo you think a better pass from Jones results in a turnover in that situation?

Probably not, but that is speculative (albeit reasonable speculation)

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 10:04:03 AMProbably not, but that is speculative (albeit reasonable speculation)

I think we all know that 99% of the time, a properly placed ball does not result in an interception in that situation.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 09:57:58 AMI would say it was a bad pass.  "Horrible" seems hyperbolic to me as the ball hit the receiver in his hands.

It's a pretty terrible pass. Even if Tracy catches it, he's getting buried for no gain on 3rd and 7. That ball has to be out in front of him to even give him a chance to turn the corner. Not sure about the play design either whether this is supposed to be a quick pass designed to create YAC or if Jones just immediately diverts to a check down. Just looked at a view from behind Jones and it looks like Nabers is wide open for a fairly easy TD.

I'm more concerned that DJ decided to throw a short out to the RB that would have resulted in a 4th down, when he had Theo open on a slant in the middle of the field, which had a higher probability of a first down.   He also had Nabers; I doubt the first option was to throw the ball 5 yards short of the line-to-gain.  This is who DJ is, and why we've been almost dead last in scoring in 4 of his 5 years.

Concerning the throw, I don't view it as a binary choice; it was a crap throw that should have been caught.  DJ is as culpable for the INT as Tracy....

Quote from: kingm56 on November 11, 2024, 10:16:48 AMI'm more concerned that DJ decided to throw a short out to the RB that would have resulted in a 4th down, when he had Theo open on a slant in the middle of the field, which had a higher probability of a first down.   He also had Nabers; I doubt it was a play designed to throw the ball 5 yards short of the line-to-gain...

You can see the play around the 6 minute mark here. Nabers looks like he's wide open but Jones just immediately goes to Tracy:

https://x.com/nickfalato/status/1855935503704773113

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 09:20:11 AMQBs going backwards in their development is common in Daboll's career

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=71340.0

Jones has had the same traits be limited factors for 6 years 

So what Daboll is or isn't will need to be assessed separately 

He got more out of jones than anyone else, and exposed Jones's ceiling in the process  

Quote from: babywhales on November 11, 2024, 10:25:32 AMJones has had the same traits be limited factors for 6 years

So what Daboll is or isn't will need to be assessed separately

He got more out of jones than anyone else, and exposed Jones's ceiling in the process 

It seems to me that what Daboll is or isn't is more relevant than Jones.  The reality is that the Giants broke Jones, and he doesn't seem fixable, at least by the Giants.  At this point, if Jones ever becomes a starter (a long shot at this point), it will be with another team.

On the other hand, what Daboll is as a head coach is perhaps the most relevant topic left for the season

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 10:27:36 AMIt seems to me that what Daboll is or isn't is more relevant than Jones.  The reality is that the Giants broke Jones, and he doesn't seem fixable, at least by the Giants.  At this point, if Jones ever becomes a starter (a long shot at this point), it will be with another team.

On the other hand, what Daboll is as a head coach is perhaps the most relevant topic left for the season

Yup, we know Jones is done so the fixation shouldn't be there any longer.  We need to know if the coach and GM are viable.  If there's an actual plan here.  Things are awful right now when there should be signs of improvement. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 10:27:36 AMIt seems to me that what Daboll is or isn't is more relevant than Jones.  The reality is that the Giants broke Jones, and he doesn't seem fixable, at least by the Giants.  At this point, if Jones ever becomes a starter (a long shot at this point), it will be with another team.

On the other hand, what Daboll is as a head coach is perhaps the most relevant topic left for the season

I am not buying the Giants broke Jones, the film shows the same traits over and over. I will say they didn't do him many favors in his development.  But Jones inability to continue to develop is on him and his mental limitations and the signs have been there since the first and second seasons.

Presnap and post snap, all the same traits that existed in past in the face of pressure or in the absence of it still exist today.

Playing QB off the 2 headed running attack with Barkley was the only real success he showed and that was a double edge sword as it was limited and halting his development.



I completely agree, what role if any Daboll has with the Giants is the number 1 question, then try to assess offensive personnel