Big Blue Huddle

Using career averages as a metric is highly spurious for quarterbacks still in the 1st halves of their careers.  The whole notion of an average is that it's...an average.  I'd say most would agree that a QB's first few years SHOULD be below their career average because, by definition, that means they are IMPROVING as the years go on.  Which of course is the natural progression for GOOD quarterbacks.

Daniel Jones?  Not so much.  None of this really matters anymore, as the DJ cake is baked / over.  I'm not sure Daboll is all that great of a coach (although squeezing a winning season with a playoff win with this roster in 2022 makes me think he's at least got SOME chops)...and I'm even less sure about Joe Schoen, especially after watching his stomach-churning lack of an actual team building plan on Hard Knocks.  It's just a complete shitshow once again and I'm tired of it.

Quote from: PSUBeirut on November 11, 2024, 02:09:56 PMUsing career averages as a metric is highly spurious for quarterbacks still in the 1st halves of their careers.  The whole notion of an average is that it's...an average.  I'd say most would agree that a QB's first few years SHOULD be below their career average because, by definition, that means they are IMPROVING as the years go on.  Which of course is the natural progression for GOOD quarterbacks.

Daniel Jones?  Not so much.  None of this really matters anymore, as the DJ cake is baked / over.  I'm not sure Daboll is all that great of a coach (although squeezing a winning season with a playoff win with this roster in 2022 makes me think he's at least got SOME chops)...and I'm even less sure about Joe Schoen, especially after watching his stomach-churning lack of an actual team building plan on Hard Knocks.  It's just a complete shitshow once again and I'm tired of it.

The assumption that any player, and in this case QBs, continually improve through all or half their careers isn't supported by the available evidence

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 02:11:46 PMThe assumption that any player, and in this case QBs, continually improve through all or half their careers isn't supported by the available evidence

So you don't think Josh Allen has improved over the years?  And you don't think Daniel Jones has regressed or, at best, flatlined?  Aren't these the two players you're talking about? 

Also, it's just obvious and common sense that the QB's that last in the NFL and produce year after year are absolutely better than they were in their 1st two years in the league.  Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, Kyler Murray, Matthew Stafford, Jared Goff, Joe Burrow....and now look at Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold...  I mean, the NFL is filled with dudes playing good to great at the QB position who are clearly better than they were when they started out (which of course.....is a completely obvious point and statement).  But because we are talking about Daniel Jones (who HAS regressed or just never materially improved), somehow we're supposed to ignore all that common sense in some sort of twisted effort to paint his shortcomings as based on Daboll not being a good enough QB guru?  These are certainly some twisted logical knots we are tying around Daniel Jones. 

We all wish he was the guy.  Who knows, if the stars had aligned and he had any semblance of an OL he could have been a perennial top-12 QB in the league like Easy Eli.  Could have been....maybe....but it doesn't matter and we'll never know.  I tend to think the evidence is clear he's just never had the chops to be a consistent high performer at the position.  It's certainly not a slam to say that about the guy- after all, there are only about 15-20 humans on the entire planet that can say they're successful at his chosen vocation.

He developed 3 of the current top 10 Qbs in the league lol. How is that looked over, Allen, Hurts, and Tua all developed from him, and got better because of him. Guess we just ignore that completely though, would hate to get in the way of a good story. Oh and he made Danel Jones look competent for a second.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 11, 2024, 04:17:09 PMHe developed 3 of the current top 10 Qbs in the league lol. How is that looked over, Allen, Hurts, and Tua all developed from him, and got better because of him. Guess we just ignore that completely though, would hate to get in the way of a good story. Oh and he made Danel Jones look competent for a second.

Jess,

I don't consider coaching a QB in college, "developing them".  College quarterbacks need to be developed into NFL quarterbacks.  The track record of coaches successfully doing that is less than ideal.

Quote from: MrGap92 on November 11, 2024, 02:04:10 PMKellen Clemens that year had his second best (not my much) season, he has never played in more than 10 games.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9635/kellen-clemens

Most seasons he threw like 5 passes, what metrics are you using? You are using a career average on a guy that saw meaningful play time in 2 of 13 seasons in the league, and you are talking about averages?

Derek Anderson played half a season in the season you studied, Quinn the other half by whatever metrics you chose, was apparently better.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8627/derek-anderson

One year wonder, never saw alot of time playing after Cleveland, again, 13 seasons, with most having no play time, and you are using averages to make Daboll look bad

Matt Cassel? Again, 9 games that year. Many seasons with little action, less than half his career saw significant time.

This is all very interesting, considering you did mention Jones only played 6 games the one year, 2023, why was this not pointed out for the others?

Alot of context being left out.

It may be too soon to judge Daboll as a HC despite his 2022 COTY Award but he is widely appreciated as play caller given that the Bills had a top-three scoring offense in each of his last two seasons with an average of 29.8 points per game. For that reason, I would be hesitant to throw the Daboll baby out with the Daniel Jones-containing bath water. Ugh! Such awful PUNishment.

Cheers!

 If Dabolls record is as bad as some want to lead us t o believe why the F**k was he hired to begin with?

Well Mara hired Joe Judge, so all is possible, but Dabo;; has to have a good enough resume to get hired anywhere.

Quote from: LennG on November 11, 2024, 07:50:19 PMIf Dabolls record is as bad as some want to lead us t o believe why the F**k was he hired to begin with?

Well Mara hired Joe Judge, so all is possible, but Dabo;; has to have a good enough resume to get hired anywhere.

He didn't get hired by the Chargers despite multiple interviews the year prior to his hiring by the Giants