Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 07:59:44 PMHe's got 6 seasons to cycle through excuses 

something something it's not just a river in Egypt.   Amazing how much people reject the more obvious and likely explanation that the Giants broke DJ.   I mean it's not like the Giants are a poorly run franchise for over a decade or the owner admitted he did everything to screw up Daniel Jones or that DJ was poorly supported or had an up and down career or that so many experts have said DJ has franchise talent.   I mean the other far fetched narrative comes with a bonus gift of telling others,  "I told you so!!!!"

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 08:06:30 PMsomething something it's not just a river in Egypt.   Amazing how much people reject the more obvious and likely explanation that the Giants broke DJ.   I mean it's not like the Giants are a poorly run franchise for over a decade or the owner admitted he did everything to screw up Daniel Jones or that DJ was poorly supported or had an up and down career or that so many experts have said DJ has franchise talent.   I mean the other far fetched narrative comes with a bonus gift of telling others,  "I told you so!!!!"

DJ would really appreciate all of your unequivocal support you've given him over the years.

You should really be more open to the fact that not everyone looks at a picture and sees the same thing. Two different viewpoints can be correct.

Yes, the Giants negatively affected DJ's growth.

Yes, DJ was lacking in mental quickness and was slow to process under pressure.

Yes, DJ had the physical talents and attributes to be a franchise QB.

Yes, DJ's lack of field vision lowered his ceiling.

All of those things are true. Trying to negate one view is futile.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 07:29:27 PMand if you are wrong?

Then they are right where they are now and Schoen and Daboll get fired.  But I'd like to see them work with a QB that gives them a chance.  They haven't had that yet through either fault of their own or Mara.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 08:13:43 PMDJ would really appreciate all of your  you've given him over the years.

You should really be more open to the fact that not everyone looks at a picture and sees the same thing. Two different viewpoints can be correct.

Yes, the Giants negatively affected DJ's growth.

Yes, DJ was lacking in mental quickness and was slow to process under pressure.

Yes, DJ had the physical talents and attributes to be a franchise QB.

Yes, DJ's lack of field vision lowered his ceiling.

All of those things are true. Trying to negate one view is futile.

Tim,

You are free to call me a DJ lover (in whatever careful words you choose to try and hide it). That's fine; I am used to your side, making things personal.

I will say you are spinning a bit of a false narrative.   Greg Cossel, a film grinder far superior to any of us on this forum, didn't say DJ ONLY had the physical tools.  He said, DJ had the ability (that includes mental and physical) to be a franchise QB (when he studied him a couple of seasons back).  This past offseason, Greg was already witnessing the decline. 

Greg is more than capable of seeing the traits you gave your opinions on and declaring those opinions the "truth"  If Greg saw a slow processing QB with poor vision, he wouldn't have said DJ had the ability to be a good franchise QB.

Of course, the other funny coincidence is the traits you negative traits you claim DJ always had exactly match the traits you would see in a battered QB who is seeing ghosts.

I will confess what really baffles me is you want a head coach who clearly is not as good as you and the other armchair QB evalutors to continue to be the head coach and pick out the next QB.   I mean what sort of HC sees a slow processing QB who can't see the field and says they need to retain him with a $40 million a year contract?   

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 08:40:43 PMTim,

You are free to call me a DJ lover (in whatever careful words you choose to try and hide it). That's fine; I am used to your side, making things personal.

I will say you are spinning a bit of a false narrative.   Greg Cossel, a film grinder far superior to any of us on this forum, didn't say DJ ONLY had the physical tools.  He said, DJ had the ability (that includes mental and physical) to be a franchise QB (when he studied him a couple of seasons back).  This past offseason, Greg was already witnessing the decline. 

Greg is more than capable of seeing the traits you gave your opinions on and declaring those opinions the "truth"  If Greg saw a slow processing QB with poor vision, he wouldn't have said DJ had the ability to be a good franchise QB.

Of course, the other funny coincidence is the traits you negative traits you claim DJ always had exactly match the traits you would see in a battered QB who is seeing ghosts.

I will confess what really baffles me is you want a head coach who clearly is not as good as you and the other armchair QB evalutors to continue to be the head coach and pick out the next QB.   I mean what sort of HC sees a slow processing QB who can't see the field and says they need to retain him with a $40 million a year contract?   

You really are a piece of work! No matter what I say, you will find fault and feel like you're being personally attacked and victimized.

Have a good night, Rich. ✌🏾✌🏾

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 08:49:46 PMYou really are a piece of work! No matter what I say, you will find fault and feel like you're being personally attacked and victimized.

Have a good night, Rich. ✌🏾✌🏾

I always try to be fair, Tim.  I am willing to try to be open-minded and listen to why you felt the need to start your previous post with:

"DJ would really appreciate all of your unequivocal support you've given him over the years."

Over the years, I have simply been expressing my opinions on what I have observed about Daniel Jones. I gave Jones no more "support" (much less Unequivocal) than any other member of the NY Giants organization.

I will confess that I have a strong natural instinct to stand up for the underdog. The way you and others have beaten the poor man over the years, one has to wonder if this is a forum or QB-hating edge rushers.
When I see someone being picked on, my first instinct is one of protection 

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1856801126185668627

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 08:15:36 AMI listened to the entire episode.   Banks essentially argues that Daboll is the right coach because he is good at the Xs and Os but then spends most of the episode pointing out all the flaws and urging the coaches to be tougher.   Carl talks about how much the players love playing for Daboll, then talks about the lack of attention to detail.

Carl was really down on Nabers, he talked more (outside the earlier clips) about bad habits he is developing.  Clearly Carl or the coaches have seen something they don't like in Nabers and likely is the cause for him becoming invisible.

I will say this about Carl's defense of Daboll:  I already mentioned Ed's assertion about how difficult it is for player-friendly coaches to be tougher (as Carl urged Daboll and other coaches to do).  I read all three of the books Tom Coughlin has written.  I feel like I have really gotten to understand how Coughlin was so successful.  While Daboll has his players enjoying ping pong and pool in the locker room, Tom Coughlin would be lecturing his players on earning the right to win and teaching them to focus on the small details (the overlooked details that Carl was urging the Giants coaches and players to focus on) because it's the small details that means the difference between winning and losing those close games.

Thank you for articulating this summary, Rich @MightyGiants . Not only insightful but damning evidence we're watching play out on the field every week in the form of drops, fumbles, interceptions, sacks and points left on the field.

It is critical that Schoen, Mara and Tisch evaluate the entire process, that is a full week in the NFL, as it applies to the head coach. They need to conduct a complete root cause analysis and then determine what can be salvaged and corrected vs. what must be removed and replaced. It is easy from here to make those calls but we do not bear the consequences nor do we then get off our collective back ends and go to work and advertise the position(s) to find not only someone who has credentials but the personality to fit in with the organization.

That doesn't even consider the thought of replacing Schoen, a destabilizing move for the Giants as a whole.

Thank you, again!

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on November 14, 2024, 07:36:48 AMThank you for articulating this summary, Rich @MightyGiants . Not only insightful but damning evidence we're watching play out on the field every week in the form of drops, fumbles, interceptions, sacks and points left on the field.

It is critical that Schoen, Mara and Tisch evaluate the entire process, that is a full week in the NFL, as it applies to the head coach. They need to conduct a complete root cause analysis and then determine what can be salvaged and corrected vs. what must be removed and replaced. It is easy from here to make those calls but we do not bear the consequences nor do we then get off our collective back ends and go to work and advertise the position(s) to find not only someone who has credentials but the personality to fit in with the organization.

That doesn't even consider the thought of replacing Schoen, a destabilizing move for the Giants as a whole.

Thank you, again!

Peace!

Chris,

We once had a member here whose wife worked for the team in a clerical job.  Over PMs, he shared with me how his wife didn't like when Tom Coughlin arrived because he shook everything up, even the offices.

In my opinion, this team needs strong leadership from either the GM or the Head Coach position.  I am talking about Tom Coughlin, Bill Belichick, and Bill Parcell level strong.  On the GM side I am talking George Young level strong. 

On top of that, they need to be good.  Joe Judge certainly was strong, but he was lacking on the good side.
We need at least one of the leadership pair to come in and shake things up.  They need to kick Ronnie Barnes and the other non-performers to the curb.  They need to sideline Mara's nephew and stop having him be a key cog in the front office machine.   He needs to tell John's brother to stick to ownership meetings and stop playing at GM.

Another thing is that Schoen and Daboll are too cozy.   You don't want differences to reach the point of dysfunction between the GM and HC but some disagreements and head butting is healthy and productive.