Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 10, 2024, 10:08:53 AMThe reference ," you "  to Gino Smith was a proverbial ,"you " not meant directly to you.

Fair enough. Since you quoted me directly, I assumed you were speaking to me and making claims about me, but understood if that wasn't the case. Happy to drop it and certainly no hard feelings. Obviously not a big deal.

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 10, 2024, 10:08:53 AMWhile we are at it , my question to you is , if a poster several years back would have asked whether the Giants should try and sign Geno Smith as a backup , what would your answer have been ?

We did have him as a backup briefly, so it's not really a hypothetical. I was neither here nor there at the time. I didn't put much thought into it. Maybe that was because, unlike his successor, Eli never got hurt, but Geno Smith wasn't nearly as bad on the Jets as Darnold was, so I didn't really care, and I don't think it's the most apt comparison myself.

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 10, 2024, 10:08:53 AMAs an aside , where did you come up with Dave Brown 74 as your post name ?

There is no special story there. I'm not a Duke fan (or a hater), but I just remember the Dave Brown days and how brutal they were, and I was pretty defensive of Brown initially. I used to get some friendly flack from my friends about that. I chose it as a name because it's kind of amusing to me personally. No real other reason.

Let's get serious and try to move forward at least a little bit. Do you need to be told that Darold is not the way to do it. If so, ask the Jets, and the Panthers, who like Our Heroes are really good at "doing the dumb".

Cheers!

Now some people here want Darnold? Seen threads that want him now??

Interesting what a new situation can do.

Here's to Jones finding success... somewhere else.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 11:50:55 PMInteresting what a new situation can do.

Here's to Jones finding success... somewhere else.

Yup, it's almost like QBs can be poorly developed and broken but with time and a proper situation they can sometimes be fixed 

I know this undercuts some of my other positions (in terms of broken QBs and reclamation), but I am always in favor of the truth and facts above all else.   Here are Sam's game logs (the newest game at the top).  Some are pointing to the increase in INTs as the old Sam returning (there are also fumbles that are not captured in these stats)




One thing that struck me was the TD/INT ratio (which should be 2 at the very minimum).  17/11 is less than impressive.  I think the wins have sort of glossed over that wart.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2024, 08:10:51 AMYup, it's almost like QBs can be poorly developed and broken but with time and a proper situation they can sometimes be fixed 

You know, Rich, you aren't wrong. My frustration with you is that you are all-in on one and only conclusion when multiple conclusions exist.

Both viewpoints can be and are correct.

Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2024, 09:05:18 AMYou know, Rich, you aren't wrong. My frustration with you is that you are all-in on one and only conclusion when multiple conclusions exist.

Both viewpoints can be and are correct.

Tim, lets be real.  There have been many posters (and to a degree even you) who have gone after me strongly because I hold the opinion I do.  You argue strongly that I am wrong to believe that the incompetent Giants organization failed to develop and then broke DJ.

I am the one being dog piled on and being told I am wrong and how I should eat crow and admit I am wrong.   It's sort of disingenuous to twist things around and accuse the holder of the minority opinion of bullying the majority that has literally accused me of everything under the sun, including being a "troll," "cheerleader," "intellectually dishonest," etc. because I won't agree with them.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2024, 09:14:43 AMTim, lets be real.  There have been many posters (and to a degree even you) who have gone after me strongly because I hold the opinion I do.  You argue strongly that I am wrong to believe that the incompetent Giants organization failed to develop and then broke DJ.

Rich, please stop with the flat-out lies!!! Find my post where I stated that.

Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2024, 09:31:56 AMRich, please stop with the flat-out lies!!! Find my post where I stated that.

Quote from: T200 on November 11, 2024, 12:21:07 PMI will also say that what Bobby said ("DJ is the main culprit and there are frustrations with Daboll's calls") are the EXACT things the majority of us have been saying but instead of acknowledging it, we get push back and deflection from you and Todge and SxD.

Your refusal to acknowledge DJ is the main culprit but citing Bobby saying the same thing says a lot.

QuoteTo claim there is only one "simple and obvious answer" is an insult to everyone else who sees it differently. It's intellectually dishonest and hypocritical of you to tell us we aren't entitled to our own facts and then you engage in the same behavior you chastise others about.

Then there is the more subtle digs like:

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2024, 07:59:44 PMHe's got 6 seasons to cycle through excuses 

Quote from: T200 on November 10, 2024, 09:19:18 PMI doubt it. Hearing/reading "I was wrong" is rare 'round these parts. Doubling down is the norm here at the BBH.

QuoteDJ would really appreciate all of your unequivocal support you've given him over the years.

QuoteWith Jones, you guys don't hold him accountable when he routinely is off-target with his passes and delight when his receivers bail him out and roast them when they don't. It's rarely DJ's fault when we read your posts.

QuoteLook, I get it. You're all in on Jones and want nothing more to do with Schoen and Daboll.

QuoteI can only go by what you post. Not a negative word about Jones. You have been one of the most relentless and ardent Jones supporters from Day 1.

Now I will remind you of how often you preach intellectual honesty and how a core principle is address the statement not the person making the statement (So this sample of a larger set of commentary about me rather than football shouldn't exist from someone always preaching intellectual honesty)

This will be my last post to you. These are YOUR words:

QuoteYou argue strongly that I am wrong to believe that the incompetent Giants organization failed to develop and then broke DJ.

I told you to post where I said that. You proceed to post a bunch of other xxxxxxxx that doesn't corroborate your latest false accusation and flat-out lie.

Enough is enough.

Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2024, 10:06:44 AMThis will be my last post to you. These are YOUR words:

I told you to post where I said that. You proceed to post a bunch of other xxxxxxxx that doesn't corroborate your latest false accusation and flat-out lie.

Enough is enough.

In fairness, I will admit I was wrong in my choice of words, those words did not accurately express the situation.

On the other hand, what is also true is that I am allowed to hold and express my views on Daniel Jones without you labeling me an "ardent supporter of Daniel Jones" or mocking me with comments like "cycling 60 games of excuses" for discussing why Jones performed as he did.

Frankly, I don't know why I can't hold and be respected for the opinions I hold. It's not like I don't provide evidence to support my opinions, nor am I incapable of defending them when challenged (which has happened quite frequently recently). 

Look, I enjoy talking football with you.  You're an intelligent man with interesting perspectives.  I just don't know why we can't talk football without the personal commentary.   If I state an opinion about Daniel Jones, it should stand or fall based on my supporting argument, not on whether you perceive me as a big-time Jones supporter or detractor; that is really immaterial to the discussion.

And another thread derailed by the same cry wolf/victim/false accusations endless argument. This forum has turned into a disaster.  

Back on topic, Darnold has had success this season, but Elvis I hesitate to go all in on him. He still has those bad decisions with the ball and in crunch time he can lose a game rather than win it. He's on a good team but put him on this Giants team and i don't know if he has the same year. I would rather have him than Lock, DeVito or Tyrod as a backup today. I think he could win a few games. His price range in 5mm and next season it's voidable but I don't see why Minnesota would cut him because McCarthy won't be ready to start the season. Mayfield is better, but more expensive and he's not going anywhere either. @MightyGiants I think Baker would classify as a reclamation but he always had the talent. He was just his own worst enemy. It will be interesting to see him in another year with Todd Bowles as that team gets built. If Schoen had tagged Jones in 2023, this could have been the giants QB. I would classify Darnold in the DJ bucket. I don't believe either of them can take a team to the Promise Land. There is something missing in their DNA.

As I have said so many times before, NFL football is as much a game of chance as it is a sport. In considering the question re Sam Darnold, we may recall that with the wise exception of Ed Vette who wanted some guy named Allen, we were split about 60/40 or more in favor of taking Darnold over Barkley with the 2nd overall pick.

We now know that Darnold would not have succeeded as Eli's successor as he did not in 3 years with the Jets, 2 with Carolina, and a season with the Niners as backup to Mr. Irrelevant, Brock Purdy. And while Barkley became 2018's OROY, he did not benefit the Giants non-winning ways overall in his 5 years and could be thought to have encouraged or forced Gettleman to use his pick 6 for Daniel Jones in a notably lean QB Draft which halfway through a 6th season has yet to produce a Quarterback with a cumulative winning record.

While we now know that it's nowhere with Daniel Jones, are we rethinking Sam Darnold (7-2 Vikings) and/or Kyler Murray (6-4 Cardinals) the top pick in 2019?  Quien sabe? Who knows although Murray has had winning seasons with the team which drafted him. Thus, it doesn't seem unreasonable for us to waste our time pondering the future of 2 of the 3 QBs, all of whom have career losing records. In fact, if not for their almost inverse W/L at present, Jones would actually have slightly better career numbers than Darnold

Will any of that mean anything of note going forward? Nothing good for Jones while we are left to speculate where Darnold may end up in this sport of chance which might then allow us to do what we do best namely, "second guess".

Cheers!