Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 13, 2024, 02:11:57 PMWe can get a vet for cheap this offseason. There are a lot of decent guys out there.

Darnold-  likely will be the target of a bidding, and not cheap, assuming the Vikings let him walk
Fields
Lance
Flacco-  Too old and washed up
Dalton-  See above
Winston
Brissett
Garrapolo
Heinicke

And that's not counting backups etc that may be available via trade.

I think there is a lot of different views about what the Giants should be looking for in a vet.

 I don't know if people were able to access the article, but Tonm Rock's point was NOT to draft a high-rated QB and get a decent enough veteran and live with that, not a stopgap. Say we got Darnold, he could be our QB for the next 5-7 years if he performed OK.
Sorry if the article was locked, I don't know how to post it otherwise.

Again, the point was not to draft a QB at #1, but to get someone maybe on day 2 or even day 3 and work with the veteran. We don't want to bridge to a possible rookie.

If Joe Schoen truly believes the unfounded optimism he served up on Tuesday, this idea that the last-place two-win Giants are "close" to being sustained contenders in the NFL and their young nucleus of players will bring them to that level with just a little more experience and seasoning, the last thing he should be thinking about is drafting a rookie quarterback this offseason.

"The Giants shouldn't be looking for their next Eli Manning. They need to find their next Kerry Collins.

They need a proven, experienced, ready-to-plug-in starter who can walk into the building and make the Giants better on Day One. That's what Collins did when he arrived as a free agent in 1999, eventually took over the starting job held for way too long by Kent Graham, then led the Giants to a Super Bowl appearance the following year. He brought them to the playoffs again in 2002 before his tenure ended with the drafting of Manning.

That strategy of recycling another team's refuse is not the outlier it once was. It's actually become a proven course of action. Of the 14 teams that would make the playoffs if the NFL season ended now, four are led by quarterbacks added from other organizations: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Atlanta and Minnesota. Another four — Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, Seattle and the Los Angeles Rams — are vying for postseason spots.

Adding Sam Darnold or Justin Fields or some other free agent or trade acquisition could be just the move to put the Giants on that list at this time next year. Maybe even add a young developmental quarterback behind him to watch and learn a bit or, if perhaps he shows improvement in what will almost surely be an upcoming opportunity at some point this season, stick with Tommy DeVito as the backup.

The bitter irony of this is the Giants had such a player in their building last year. Russell Wilson, who has gone 3-0 as the Steelers' starter, visited East Rutherford before leaving and signing in Pittsburgh. Schoen made it sound as if not coming to an agreement with Wilson was just as much on the player as the organization, which may be true in that Wilson walked away. But at the time the Giants were still steadfast in their belief in Jones as their starter and were offering Wilson a definite backup job. Naturally he went where he would at least have a chance to start.

Schoen said on Tuesday there are decisions and evaluations he made early in his tenure with the Giants that he regrets and that he is still paying for. He would not say it directly, but his misevaluation of Jones must be among them. He and others in the organization thought what they saw from Jones in the playoff run of 2022 was just the start of his ascension. It turned out to be his apex . . . and with a steep downhill slope on the other side of the pinnacle. Since that playoff exit Jones has won three of his 16 starts, missed half a season with neck and knee injuries, and done little to justify the $160 million contract he was given.

Thanks, Lenn.

Quote from: LennG on November 13, 2024, 04:33:11 PMI don't know if people were able to access the article, but Tonm Rock's point was NOT to draft a high-rated QB and get a decent enough veteran and live with that, not a stopgap. Say we got Darnold, he could be our QB for the next 5-7 years if he performed OK.
Sorry if the article was locked, I don't know how to post it otherwise.

Again, the point was not to draft a QB at #1, but to get someone maybe on day 2 or even day 3 and work with the veteran. We don't want to bridge to a possible rookie.

If Joe Schoen truly believes the unfounded optimism he served up on Tuesday, this idea that the last-place two-win Giants are "close" to being sustained contenders in the NFL and their young nucleus of players will bring them to that level with just a little more experience and seasoning, the last thing he should be thinking about is drafting a rookie quarterback this offseason.

"The Giants shouldn't be looking for their next Eli Manning. They need to find their next Kerry Collins.

They need a proven, experienced, ready-to-plug-in starter who can walk into the building and make the Giants better on Day One. That's what Collins did when he arrived as a free agent in 1999, eventually took over the starting job held for way too long by Kent Graham, then led the Giants to a Super Bowl appearance the following year. He brought them to the playoffs again in 2002 before his tenure ended with the drafting of Manning.

That strategy of recycling another team's refuse is not the outlier it once was. It's actually become a proven course of action. Of the 14 teams that would make the playoffs if the NFL season ended now, four are led by quarterbacks added from other organizations: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Atlanta and Minnesota. Another four — Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, Seattle and the Los Angeles Rams — are vying for postseason spots.

Adding Sam Darnold or Justin Fields or some other free agent or trade acquisition could be just the move to put the Giants on that list at this time next year. Maybe even add a young developmental quarterback behind him to watch and learn a bit or, if perhaps he shows improvement in what will almost surely be an upcoming opportunity at some point this season, stick with Tommy DeVito as the backup.

The bitter irony of this is the Giants had such a player in their building last year. Russell Wilson, who has gone 3-0 as the Steelers' starter, visited East Rutherford before leaving and signing in Pittsburgh. Schoen made it sound as if not coming to an agreement with Wilson was just as much on the player as the organization, which may be true in that Wilson walked away. But at the time the Giants were still steadfast in their belief in Jones as their starter and were offering Wilson a definite backup job. Naturally he went where he would at least have a chance to start.

Schoen said on Tuesday there are decisions and evaluations he made early in his tenure with the Giants that he regrets and that he is still paying for. He would not say it directly, but his misevaluation of Jones must be among them. He and others in the organization thought what they saw from Jones in the playoff run of 2022 was just the start of his ascension. It turned out to be his apex . . . and with a steep downhill slope on the other side of the pinnacle. Since that playoff exit Jones has won three of his 16 starts, missed half a season with neck and knee injuries, and done little to justify the $160 million contract he was given.

No chance, Lenn. They will draft a QB in the first round. They will also add a vet. The QB room now is bare. They have to restock.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on November 13, 2024, 01:39:28 PMMarcus Mariotta.

Young team, we need to find a QB, take two from the list, Get rid of Jones, Lock and DeVitio. Get Taylor, Mariota or Flacco to be QB1 next year and let the two young guns learn and battle it out in camp


https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=71272.msg978491#msg978491

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2024, 12:25:19 PMLenn, the time for that was before this season. When a team needs a QB and they are picking in one of the top two spots of the draft and have their choice to develop a Franchise QB, then they must do that. There's a paywall on that Newsday link so I didn't read it but if that's what it was pushing, then no. They will however need a Veteran who can start next season if need be, and mentor the young QB. To mentor and develop, not in place of.

This is the correct take. You don't start getting cute when you're drafting #1 or #2 overall and you're in dire need of a QB.

In 2004 the Giants did the right thing by both signing future HOF Kurt Warner and drafting Philip Rivers who turned into Eli Manning. And three years later they won a SB.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 13, 2024, 03:06:28 PMBecause Lance would be a cheap backup. We are not grabbing a guy to be the future from this group. I'd argue that Lance would be a better backup in our system than Lock currently. 

We need a stop gap starter not a cheap 3rd string caliber QB. We already have that on our roster.

How long will Atlanta sit Penix?  Cousins could be traded after this season without destroying their cap. 

Of course his cap hit will be sizeable

Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 14, 2024, 11:02:07 AMHow long will Atlanta sit Penix?  Cousins could be traded after this season without destroying their cap. 

Of course his cap hit will be sizeable

Looking at the cap, it seems that the Falcons would be better off trading Cousins in 2026, but as you said they could trade him in 2025 (when their cap is tight) but it won't give them any cap relief

Quote from: LennG on November 13, 2024, 11:34:54 AMVery interesting article in today's Newsday by Tom Rock who says the Giants would be much better off going after a veteran QB and not a rookie.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/tom-rock/joe-schoen-giants-p1kmqe95

He likens it to the Kerry Collins days when we brought in a veteran and went to the SB soon after.

I have been saying that for some time
Get a decent veteran Qb and see what this team has for offensive talent,  draft a young guy if they like one and let him sit and learn.  If Jones has been the problem holding the offense back( I think he is ) then a good vet would fit the bill for a year or so.


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I have been watching Eagles /Washington game.   Barkley is really good.   Giants need a guy like that!


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Quote from: Woody on November 14, 2024, 10:50:58 PMI have been watching Eagles /Washington game.   Barkley is really good.   Giants need a guy like that!


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But he costs too much money and we Giants fans don't want to spend. 

Quote from: Woody on November 14, 2024, 10:50:58 PMI have been watching Eagles /Washington game.   Barkley is really good.   Giants need a guy like that!


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Nah, we would rather throw 100Mil at a dime store QB who can't throw a TD  and see wide open receivers.

To me, the approach to the QB situation for next year is (or should be) pretty straightforward:

If they are in a position to draft a first round QB that they are high on, they should absolutely do it.

They SHOULD NOT draft a first round QB they are only lukewarm on, simply because of need.

In the event that they do not draft a QB, they should sign a veteran free agent for what will clearly be much less money than they're paying Jones (and likely better performance than what he delivered in 2023 and 2024).

If they end up with a veteran, they can then reassess their situation at the end of the 2025 season.

As an aside, if they do not draft a QB in this upcoming offseason, I would like to see them try to shift draft capital from 2025 to 2026, so as to augment their ability to trade up in 2026 should they want to.