Big Blue Huddle

I have pondered this before as I am sure others have, but one theme with all these coaching hires since the Coughlin firing is that not a single one is a guy who has had success in the NFL as a head coach before. The only hire that actually had head coaching experience was Shurmur, but he was unsuccessful in Cleveland. Every other hire was a first time head coach. Mara probably realizes this and is thinking about it.

Of course, there is no guarantee that when you're in the market for a head coach there will be anyone available who had meaningful success as a head coach in this league. Moreover, even if there is one, he may not be interested in the job. But this must have crossed Mara's mind at some point. This might be a motivating factor to try to go after Belichick if Mara were to fire Daboll.

I'm not sure where that would leave Schoen though. Is Schoen really going to be Belichick's boss? That sounds farcical. But would he really fire a GM after just three seasons, only two of which were actually bad? That seems unlike Mara and unlike the Giants. He let Gettleman hang around for four seasons, all of which were bad. Tricky.

While you make a good point, I have to wonder if any of them were given a realistic chance to succeed.

For example I always believed that with the proper support, Shurmur would've developed into a very sold HC. In the way that Reeves was a solid HC.

When I ponder that I also consider that Mara destroyed whatever culture TC built and he hasn't proven that he knows how to hire a GM (perhaps because he secretly wants the job?) so the HC is moot at that point.

This franchise is in desperate need of an intervention.


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I 100% totally disagree with you in terms of people won't be interested in the Giants job!...this is NY...these guys have massive egos...I agree with a lot of the things u post but on this - let's have at it....(actually come to think of it, I think it's healthy to disagree sometimes with those u agre with)

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on November 27, 2024, 09:21:35 PMWhile you make a good point, I have to wonder if any of them were given a realistic chance to succeed.

For example I always believed that with the proper support, Shurmur would've developed into a very sold HC. In the way that Reeves was a solid HC.

When I ponder that I also consider that Mara destroyed whatever culture TC built and he hasn't proven that he knows how to hire a GM (perhaps because he secretly wants the job?) so the HC is moot at that point.

This franchise is in desperate need of an intervention.


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Mara doesn't know how to hire anybody. And yet he will do it again soon.

Reeves was in three Super Bowls before coming to the Giants. Widely seen as one of the best coaches in football. Had learned under Tom Landry. The Giants had already considered bringing him in as coach in 1979. Shurmur was a mediocrity through and through. A typical Mara hire.   

Quote from: Trench on November 28, 2024, 12:16:04 AMI 100% totally disagree with you in terms of people won't be interested in the Giants job!...this is NY...these guys have massive egos...

Trench,

While I always welcome disagreement, that isn't quite what I said.

Here is what I in fact said:

"Moreover, even if there is one, he may not be interested in the job."

I did not say people "won't" be interested in the job. I said they may not, which is clearly different.

Consider the hiring of Pat Shurmur. If you recall, he was not the Giants' first choice. Nor was he even their second choice. Prior to hiring Pat, they were turned down by Matt Patricia and Josh McDaniels. See below article in case you don't recall that:

https://www.nydailynews.com/2018/01/20/third-choice-giants-coach-pat-shurmur-needs-tactful-approach-to-ny-media/

While I don't think either of Patricia or McDaniels would have been better coaches than Shurmur, the fact remains that it's not some guarantee that every single candidate will favor the Giants' coaching opportunity over all other opportunities. This has happened before, as I just demonstrated. That is all I said, and it's backed up by factual examples in recent times.

Bill Belichick and Mike Vrabel are the only coaches in this cycle with experience and winning records

Quote from: BlueMoshik on November 28, 2024, 04:20:39 AMMara doesn't know how to hire anybody. And yet he will do it again soon.

Reeves was in three Super Bowls before coming to the Giants. Widely seen as one of the best coaches in football. Had learned under Tom Landry. The Giants had already considered bringing him in as coach in 1979. Shurmur was a mediocrity through and through. A typical Mara hire.   

I am beginning to wonder if the issue is Mara doesn't know how to hire or if he has created an organization and culture where success is nearly impossible.  I am mindful that even Tom Coughlin couldn't win for the last 5 or 7 years.

How similar or different were the Knicks under Dolan?  He hired people and most didnt work out (except Donnie Walsh) then he hires Leon Rose who at the time was a hire I did not support at all.  Rose proved me wrong because he had a vision.

1). Accumulate draft picks

2) Find a coach to develop young talent

3) understand that developed talent has value to be traded

4) be patient, build slowly with youth and with accumulated assets trade when it is only accretive to long term success.

Did Dolan really stop being Dolan or did Rose have a plan?

Have any of the Giants GMs recently had a plan?  If so maybe Mara would not mAtter.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 28, 2024, 07:40:33 AMI am beginning to wonder if the issue is Mara doesn't know how to hire or if he has created an organization and culture where success is nearly impossible.  I am mindful that even Tom Coughlin couldn't win for the last 5 or 7 years.

We are well aware of the influential statements he publicly made. We don't know what else is said and done in private that may have been even more influential and detrimental.

Quote from: T200 on November 28, 2024, 09:04:04 AMWe are well aware of the influential statements he publicly made. We don't know what else is said and done in private that may have been even more influential and detrimental.

Tim,

Frankly, if the GM and HC can't stand up to a few suggestions from the owner, they are not suited to the job.  I am speaking more about the entire organization from top to bottom not being held accountable due to excessive loyalty and far too much nepotism.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 28, 2024, 05:00:23 AMTrench,

While I always welcome disagreement, that isn't quite what I said.

Here is what I in fact said:

"Moreover, even if there is one, he may not be interested in the job."

I did not say people "won't" be interested in the job. I said they may not, which is clearly different.

Consider the hiring of Pat Shurmur. If you recall, he was not the Giants' first choice. Nor was he even their second choice. Prior to hiring Pat, they were turned down by Matt Patricia and Josh McDaniels. See below article in case you don't recall that:

https://www.nydailynews.com/2018/01/20/third-choice-giants-coach-pat-shurmur-needs-tactful-approach-to-ny-media/

While I don't think either of Patricia or McDaniels would have been better coaches than Shurmur, the fact remains that it's not some guarantee that every single candidate will favor the Giants' coaching opportunity over all other opportunities. This has happened before, as I just demonstrated. That is all I said, and it's backed up by factual examples in recent times.

My apologies. I missed that one word "may" and took your post to infer something totally different

Quote from: Trench on November 28, 2024, 10:26:54 AMMy apologies. I missed that one word "may" and took your post to infer something totally different

No need for any apologies my friend.

Enjoy the festivities today!

I agree.  No person in power keeps his mouth shut or does not share his thoughts.  What world is that?

A person listens then does what he thinks is best with the senior person letting him make the call.  If he fails enough times in the right call he gets fired.

 Maybe the age of football has changed dramatically where now the owners are the ones who hire and fire. Could you ever imagine Goerge Young being told who Wellington wanted as a HC or how he should run the team? GY would have laughed in his face and walked out. But today, owners, like Mara and others, have to have final say in ever thing and most think they know football. but in reality, they don't. They are not talent evaluators, not capologists.

I don't know if it is even possible in this modern era of football, to hire a GM and let them do the work you are paying them to do and not have everything go thru the owner's suite. I think that's what has happened in Philly and look at them. I remember Lurie used to be an interferer, but he saw the light and hired maybe the best GM in the NFL. Look at what he has done for that team. I believe that is the big exception as now owners think they have to be part of the system instead of just sitting in their box and rooting.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 28, 2024, 09:09:07 AMTim,

Frankly, if the GM and HC can't stand up to a few suggestions from the owner, they are not suited to the job.  I am speaking more about the entire organization from top to bottom not being held accountable due to excessive loyalty and far too much nepotism.

He did stand up. Barkley is gone. His adopted son is gone.

Let him continue to do what he needs to do to get this train back on track.

And I agree that it applies to the entire organization, not just GM and HC.