Big Blue Huddle

I liked it in the summer but he apparently wasn't allowed to compete for a starting job.

Signs with the Steelers and throws for over 400 yards against the Bengals. 

Good point, Ed.

In fairness, the Steelers are a well run organization.  I doubt Wilson would perform as well if he was a Giant

The Steelers are a great example of why it isn't the end of the world to swing and miss on a 1st round QB. Pickett was TERRIBLE. But rather than cling and make excuses, they cut bait after two years and hit the free agent market instead. Now they're one of the best teams in the league a year later.

Obviously, their overall roster is vastly superior to the Giants'. They have drafted much better than we have. But this idea that if you draft a bust QB in the first round you're screwed for five years is fiction. What screws you for five years is handing out an albatross second contract (without a two year out) to a mediocre QB, not drafting one.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 01, 2024, 07:01:05 PMThe Steelers are a great example of why it isn't the end of the world to swing and miss on a 1st round QB. Pickett was TERRIBLE. But rather than cling and make excuses, they cut bait after two years and hit the free agent market instead. Now they're one of the best teams in the league a year later.

Obviously, their overall roster is vastly superior to the Giants'. They have drafted much better than we have. But this idea that if you draft a bust QB in the first round you're screwed for five years is fiction. What screws you for five years is handing out an albatross second contract (without a two year out) to a mediocre QB, not drafting one.

To your point, I'd take Cousins in a heartbeat. If nothing else he will show us if it's the QB or if it's Daboll.

The Giants weren't going to provide the $40MM golden boy with a real challenge. Wilson wanted a chance to compete to start--that wasn't happening here. Tyrod likely left for similar reasons. It is what is.

To me, the reality of this season was if Jones wasn't the guy, the franchise was sentenced to try and find the long term solution after the year is over. Wilson isn't long term. Would he have squeezed out more wins? Very likely. But where does that land the Giants? A first round exit from the playoffs again (at best) and worse draft position?

I'm tired of half measures. I'm tired of the Giants pretending winning 6 is more respectable than 2. It's not. You're a loser. You're not competitive. Get better draft position, draft better players, and get out of the gutter.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on December 01, 2024, 05:58:01 PMI liked it in the summer but he apparently wasn't allowed to compete for a starting job.

Signs with the Steelers and throws for over 400 yards against the Bengals. 

 There was no way Wilson was going to sign here unless he had a chance to compete to be a starter. YOu simply cannot blame Schoen for that. You can blame him for the ridiculous contract he gave Jones, but under the circumstances, and we really don't know what part Mara played in this (no matter what we hear as rumors), he had to resign Jones. I would have loved to have Wilson here, but under the circumstances, he wasn't going to accept a backup role when he has always been a starter. And really, he didn't light up the scoreboard in Denver and he signed with the Steelers on the cheap. What do you think he will be asking for next year and beyond?

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on December 01, 2024, 05:58:01 PMI liked it in the summer but he apparently wasn't allowed to compete for a starting job.

Signs with the Steelers and throws for over 400 yards against the Bengals. 

They needed to unequivocally demonstrate that Jones was not the guy.

Having Russell come in and win some games would push us further down the draft away from getting the QB of the future.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 01, 2024, 07:01:05 PMThe Steelers are a great example of why it isn't the end of the world to swing and miss on a 1st round QB. Pickett was TERRIBLE. But rather than cling and make excuses, they cut bait after two years and hit the free agent market instead. Now they're one of the best teams in the league a year later.

Obviously, their overall roster is vastly superior to the Giants'. They have drafted much better than we have. But this idea that if you draft a bust QB in the first round you're screwed for five years is fiction. What screws you for five years is handing out an albatross second contract (without a two year out) to a mediocre QB, not drafting one.

Steelers drafted 3 OL in 2024. 1st rounder Fautanu started and is now on IR.  Frazier (2nd) and McCormick (4th) are both currently starters. 

That's one way to solidify your OL.

Quote from: Trench on December 01, 2024, 07:31:39 PMTo your point, I'd take Cousins in a heartbeat. If nothing else he will show us if it's the QB or if it's Daboll.

Cousins is about to get benched in Atl for terrible play; he's thrown 6 int in his last 2 games, including 4 today. He's been bad for 4 weeks now.  I'd prefer the Giants draft a QB in the next 2 years, vice signing a QB with 1 playoff win in 13 years. 

I get Jones was hurt last year and the OLine was a complete disaster.  Guess they were expecting him to be as good as 2022.  What I wonder is if he did sign here, how long before he was starting?  Jones was awful early and IIRC was pretty bad in camp.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 01, 2024, 07:01:05 PMThe Steelers are a great example of why it isn't the end of the world to swing and miss on a 1st round QB. Pickett was TERRIBLE. But rather than cling and make excuses, they cut bait after two years and hit the free agent market instead. Now they're one of the best teams in the league a year later.

Obviously, their overall roster is vastly superior to the Giants'. They have drafted much better than we have. But this idea that if you draft a bust QB in the first round you're screwed for five years is fiction. What screws you for five years is handing out an albatross second contract (without a two year out) to a mediocre QB, not drafting one.

In my opinion, the point in bold is the most important part of the post.   Not only do the Steelers draft better, they are superior at developing players.  In my opinion, player development is just as important as scouting draft prospects.  There is a reason the GMs teamed with outstanding coaches seem to always do better drafting, and it's the edge superior player development brings.

The Steelers not only draft well, but they develop players well.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 01, 2024, 07:01:05 PMThe Steelers are a great example of why it isn't the end of the world to swing and miss on a 1st round QB. Pickett was TERRIBLE. But rather than cling and make excuses, they cut bait after two years and hit the free agent market instead. Now they're one of the best teams in the league a year later.

Obviously, their overall roster is vastly superior to the Giants'. They have drafted much better than we have. But this idea that if you draft a bust QB in the first round you're screwed for five years is fiction. What screws you for five years is handing out an albatross second contract (without a two year out) to a mediocre QB, not drafting one.

Great point Jeff.  Add in the prolong play of Flowers and Neal and it is clear the Giants don't see failure quickly enough and replace it.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 02, 2024, 08:56:18 AMGreat point Jeff.  Add in the prolong play of Flowers and Neal and it is clear the Giants don't see failure quickly enough and replace it.

Joe,

I suspect the Giants recognize the failure.  I think the issue involves the GM admitting failure with high draft picks.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 02, 2024, 09:00:20 AMJoe,

I suspect the Giants recognize the failure.  I think the issue involves the GM admitting failure with high draft picks.

The biggest failure was Jones and that wasn't recognized by the Giants until Schoen came in. And even then, Mara continued to advocate for, and ultimately engineered a new contract for him.

Trying to reframe this entire dumpster fire to put the focus on Schoen and Daboll isn't working for me.

Quote from: T200 on December 02, 2024, 09:10:10 AMThe biggest failure was Jones and that wasn't recognized by the Giants until Schoen came in. And even then, Mara continued to advocate for, and ultimately engineered a new contract for him.

Trying to reframe this entire dumpster fire to put the focus on Schoen and Daboll isn't working for me.

Tim,

I appreciate that this is what you believe happened, but factually speaking, there is zero evidence to support this version of events.  In fact, all available evidence suggests that this is not how things transpired.  It was, in fact, Schoen and Daboll who evaluated DJ after the 2022 season and believed DJ could continue to improve and be this team's franchise QB.

While I appreciate your right to believe what you want, I can't help but feel like it's a bit of revisionist history.